SEO earthquake: Danny Sullivan leaving SEW and SES

Today, Danny Sullivan announced that he’s leaving the popular site that he built and the Search Engine Strategies series of conferences that he ramped up. For the search industry, this is a nine on the Richter scale and has the potential to shake the whole industry for a few months. Danny has been covering the search industry for over a decade now, and the brands that he built in Search Engine Watch and Search Engine Strategies are incredibly strong–although not as strong as the reputation that Danny built on a personal level. Anyone that’s had a chance to spend any time with Danny has a huge amount of respect for him. And no matter how you slice it, Danny counts as one of the “founding fathers” of the search industry.

Only time will tell how this will all shake out. My sense is that Danny will benefit from this–any company would be lucky to have Danny. I guess the one thing you can count on in the search industry is change. My spidey sense tells me that backchannels in search are probably lit up like Christmas trees talking about this. 🙂

Danny, I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do next.

98 Responses to SEO earthquake: Danny Sullivan leaving SEW and SES (Leave a comment)

  1. Eric Baillargeon

    I totally agree and it’s a funny coincidence that the old owner of SEW, Jupiter, annonce today the launch of his own social marketing research service !

  2. Sounds like Danny Sullivan is in a great position of power and control. A great opportunity to leverage his situation to get what he rightfully deserves regarding compensation, position, influence, etc.

    Good people always land on their feet. Danny is one of those people.

    Matt Cutts, do you have the ability to make hiring decisions? Offer a boat load of stock options and . . .



    David Payne
    Biz Dev

  3. He built quite a little empire, I am sure all of the international travel over the years has taken its toll. I am thrilled for him, he is a bright guy.

    His crew is also top notch, I am sure they will take care of his legacy.

    You know you have made it, when the search engines wonder what he is thinking. We where pondering that concept years ago.

  4. Seems like a decent guy and very generous to his former work collegues – all the future happiness in his endevours – success did not seem appropriate, he has already achieved the pinacle of the industry, indeed he has shaped the world culture by his innovation.

  5. It’s going to be very interesting to see what Danny decides to do. He has a lot of options!

  6. I’ve only been in the SEO business for a little over a year, but I came to respect Danny quite quickly in that time. There should be no worries about his future, but it’s always sad when your creation is co-opted and you’re forced to turn your back on it.

    Incisive Media has underestimated the man, and it’s their loss.

  7. “any company would be lucky to have Danny”

    Matt, is that a hint 🙂

  8. It comes with a shock this morning about the news after so many years with all the hard works he has been doing for the SEW and SES. However, wherever he decides to go, he will bring success there.

  9. I just hope this means he’ll go hang out at WMW Vegas now that he’s a free agent.

  10. I have been reading Danny’s stuff since about ’97-’98. I even traded a few emails with him about SE activity that I observed. I have always been very proud that he took the time to do so.

    People who buy assets often don’t understand where the value is in their new asset. So I guess is would have been unusual for him to have staid on though this purchase.

    Ted Z

  11. Whoa! This is a real shocker!

    I must say that I’m in denial. I just don’t believe it.

  12. Change IS good. Someone like Danny Sullivan will do better with a fresher start. My hunch is that he will continue the educational route. He mentioned to me (ask me for pointer to the audio) that this stuff really inspires him. His comments came across as very honest and sincere so I think he’ll continue down a similar path.

    Also, Matt, great job on the “duplicate content” panel at ses. Danny did good for the attendees by getting that group together in that context. That session alone rendered a thousand threads obsolete.

  13. I can understand Danny leaving – I think I’d have done the same thing in the circumstances, and I wish him well in whatever he does next.

    But it leaves us without his leverage. I’m inclined to think that, among outsiders, it was Danny who the search engines listened to the most, and who really did (does) have some influence with them, and not SEW. And I’m inclined to think that the engines saw (see) him as being representative of SEOs, and not the company. I doubt that that will change instantly, and I hope he decides to maintain that ‘status’ and start something similar to what he’s left behind.

  14. FWIW, danny was planning on going to WMW Vegas this year anyway.

  15. I have been working all day, and haven’t read anything online until now. I can’t believe it! He is the face of the industry.

  16. Now that Danny is gone I guess it’s time to give up all this SEO nonsense and start playing video games again. I can’t wait to go outside again and see the sun.

  17. That was shocker

  18. I think Danny is the brand and SEW/SES are just places you go to find Danny, but time will tell if there’s enough momentum for SEW/SES to run without him.

  19. well.. after reading his blog, I am probably one of many that will cease my membership with SEW. I went in back in the 90’s due to clients who have worked with Danny, I doubt that I will need to continue and will probably carry one when he’s moved on with his new venture.

    I wish you luck Danny – I’m looking forward to your new adventures.

  20. .. leaving any company after 10 years brings on emotion in anyone. Best of luck in his new endevours.

  21. Previous posters are absolutely right: “Danny Sullivan” is as much, if not more so, the “brand” to which the search community is loyal.

    Not sure that this could have shaken out any differently, but this is a major defeat for Incisive and it’s going to have a big impact on the industry. We’re all waiting with bated breath to see where Danny goes from here.

  22. I am not sure which is more shocking, Danny leaving SES/SEW, or the PR guru at Incisive who estimated the fallout of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I hear Incisive is working with McDonalds now and telling them to ditch the clown with the bad shoes….

  23. Eh, I’ve never really liked that site much anyway. It’s information overload. It’s just got way too much crap on the front.

    Matt will probably end up hiring Danny anyway or something…

    whatever he does, we’ll probably all be talking about it anyway.

  24. I may be the only one that thinks this, but while Danny did contribute some pretty important stuff and I’m not trying to discount it in any way, his impending severance of ties with Incisive isn’t that big a deal for two reasons:

    1) He likely won’t drop off the face of the planet. If he’s like most people, he’ll end up involved in the SEO industry in some capacity. And as soon as he announces where that is, others will follow.

    2) The beauty of the web as a medium is that it is so vast and that there is so much to see and do and interact with and buy and so on and so on that not one of us is bigger than the medium itself. Not you, not me, not even people like Danny and Matt who have a pretty strong presence, will leave an irreparable void when we decide not to use it anymore or when something happens that prevents us from doing so.

    Are the search engines going to change things if Danny isn’t acting as a watchdog on behalf of the SEO community? No.

    Are most webmasters going to change how they build their sites, especially the good webmasters with quality sites, if Danny isn’t providing SEO news and advice and tips and all that wonderful stuff? Pretty unlikely, unless someone comes along that can make him/herself into an even more imperial Godlike SEO creature than Danny is.

    Are end users, 99.999999% of whom haven’t even heard of Danny or Matt or any of us for that matter, going to change Internet habits based on it? No.

    The real effect of this won’t be on any of us, unless one of us happens to work for Incisive Media. The effect will be on Incisive Media themselves and (in a positive sense) whoever Danny ends up working with/for.

  25. Because Danny has been the “face” of the Search Marketing Industry for many years, this could have a negative effect on the Industry (depending upon what Danny decides to do).

    Danny’s knowledge, wisdom and mature discernment has enabled him to be an effective, AUTONOMOUS representative of the entire industry when called upon by traditional media.

    From a purely selfish (Search Marketing Industry) standpoint I am hoping that some of those Northern California Venture Capitalists are already on the phone to Danny with offers that include an appropriate equity position.

    Danny’s AUTONOMOUS status and influence are needed now more than ever, IMO, as traditional ad agencies are just beginning to wake up to the necessity of embracing Search Marketing. I believe Danny has the influence and power to make sure Search Marketing doesn’t become just one more tool in the ad agency’s arsenal. Search Marketing deserves an independence due to its uniqueness, and Danny can do more to help the reputation and independence of the industry than anyone I know.

  26. Watch that math Adam – 99.999999% of the entire world’s population would be, I think, all but about 60 people and perhaps only about 20 “users”. But even if you say all but the 100,000 or so who are familiar with his name, figures like Sullivan (who I do not personally know) have an impact far beyond that because they connect folks via conferences, information, and beers in a way that is extremely significant in the search world.

  27. hrmmm I do not understand why incisive would can danny but I bet it was hard with him being in england and all… still….

    do we all boycott ses now =P ?

  28. Hi, Matt,

    I think Danny is leaving to start his own search engine.

    Google site: searches for several of my client webs caught in the late April early May Google content filter collapse fiasco show 191 pages for a web with 50 and over 50 pages for a web with 20 pages. The webs are all structurally compliant, Google Sitemap BETA XML in place, everything else according to Hoyle and Google cannot fix the index problem in over 3 months? That’s tragic.

    We cannot communicate with the Google team any longer? Your emails on the help web bounce and the contact forms we used to be able to use are all gone now?

    I am looking forward to seeing online. Go Danny.

  29. Watch that math Adam – 99.999999% of the entire world’s population would be, I think, all but about 60 people and perhaps only about 20 “users”.

    Okay, my math:

    11 straight hours + 130% all-out ass-busting + solving the problems of 5 people = me being allowed to do whatever the hell math I want. 😉

  30. Shoemoney wrote: “hrmmm I do not understand why incisive would can danny but I bet it was hard with him being in england and all… still….”

    Just as an effort to clarify things for people, Danny was based in the UK long before Incisive Media bought SEW.

    Incisive Media, actually, happens to be based in the UK as well, with NYC/CT offices.

    finally, Incisive did not “can” danny – Danny had a contract expiring that he chose not to continue, based on the outcome of renegotiations of that contract.

  31. I agree with Adam (I think). Danny leaving SEW isn’t going to have an impact on the search engine world – not in my opinion, anyway. What it means is that ‘our’ voice with the engines may have gone, unless the engines treat someone else like they treated Danny. Danny may not see himself like that, but I think that many poeple on this side of the business see him like that.

    Personally, I hope that Danny finds a way to continue being our voice in that way, because it may hard for someone else to gain the same status.

  32. >boycott SES

    It will be interesting to see what many of the speakers with deep ties to Danny decide to do re: SES NYC. I’m sure they’re not interested in building Incisive’s brand out of the goodness of their hearts either. If there is a notable drop off at NYC, will SES San Jose become just a shell of its former self?

    Could this spell the end of the Google Dance?

    BT has to be loving this.

  33. Dave (Original)

    This isn’t going to go down well, but oh well, that the beauty of democratic societies.

    Danny S, IMO (and no, I’m not alone in this opinion) has been habouring SE spammers on SEW for for many years, both before and after. SEW has been advertising spammers for as long. They have a VERY ‘clicky’ group of known spammers the virtualy run the forum DO protect their black hat mates.

    The “SEO conferences” that Danny S has been involved in have given spammers a platform and hence credibility on many occasions. This alone has tainted the whole industry as an industry to be VERY dubious about. The naive Webmaster and those not up to full speed with white hat SEO, cannot trust the industry on the whole.

    If he leaves the SEO industry entirely (I do hope), the sooner it can be cleaned up as perhaps seen as a true professional industry. He has done far more damage to the industry on the whole than good IMO.

  34. Best of luck for Danny! I’m sure whatever he decides next will be as successful as searchenginewatch.
    And Matt, I want to point out at the following google search result. Nothing wrong, but extremely frustrating for the end user…
    I just searched for “creating a subdomain with php”, and somewhere in the first 4 I got this page:

    Nothing wrong, no spam, but nothing related to the actual search query as well…
    I think I am not speaking for myself here, but others will also agree that when we search, we don’t want to “first register” on the resulting page just to see what the page has.

    One doesn’t even know whether they (resulting site, could be any ) has an actual solution or just some “unresolved” discussion.

    It’s just giving 1 page to searchbots, and another to visitors…

    There could be more searches where people are getting similar results and it’s frustrating.

    P.S I am not pointing at any site, Paid or Free. But registering just to see what you gave to searchbots is frustrating.
    Something more useful could have been there at that number in search results.

  35. Well obviously I spend too much time developing content and not enough researching SEO, as I’ve never heard of Danny Sullivan. I guess this yet another earthquake I slept through.

    Oh, what was the comment about the PR guru at Incisive? I’m afraid I’m not familiar with that one either.

  36. WTF planet is Dave H on? Geezus. Been inhaling too much red cordial me thinks.

  37. Original Dave – “Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”

  38. i love Danny Sullivan, hope he will have a good future!

  39. Its hard to imagine what will happen…I don’t think SES will be as good. Pretty interesting move though…

  40. It is the person who no one has ever heard of but makes a big contribution that everyone recognizes and remembers in history. The marketeers who blow the horns grow silent when the wind leaves the sails. As in the wild west days, the internet has The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Today’s success can be tomorrow’s failure…

    The test of time will measure all of our contributions and from there we will find out those worthy of praise and remembrance…

    In the mean time, treat others as you would wish to have them treat you…and if you have nothing nice to say about another…it is best to say nothing at all…

    If Danny S took the time to help just one person learn something (be it wrong or right)…at least he took the time and that deserves some respect…

    May the road he is on be well traveled and have at least one smiley face for him to reflect upon…

  41. Dave (Original)

    Well, I did say “This isn’t going to go down well” 🙂

    Pity anyone with a different opinion get meaningless retorts thrown back. Not suprised by the 2 so far though, could have predicted those.

    I guess ignorance is bliss, hey Kirby 🙂

  42. If you say so Dave.

  43. This is a shocking news of the day.

  44. SEW SES without DS is like xmas without santy claws.

    Whate were Incisive drinking!

    Im looking forward to reading the book ‘How to devalue a multi million dollar brand in one fell swoop’

    Good luck DS, even though you will not be needing it 😀

  45. It’s a shocking news. However, if Danny decides to switch company for his personal reasons, I am sure he would still be contributing to the search engine world.

  46. I recently had a chance to speak at SES San Jose this year. I guess I was lucky to be able to do so with Danny one last time. I’m sure he’s off to a great opportunity and I wish him well. Danny rocks!

  47. Making the Right Move at the Right Time is very important, , , I hope it is a right move for Danny

  48. Now hang on, people disagreeing and jumping down Dave’s throat. He might have a point. I highlighted the word “might” because truth be told, neither I nor anyone else knows nor will know until Danny does whatever he’s going to do next.

    What the hell am I talking about?

    I’m talking about the advertisers (e.g. Text-Link-Ads, Trellian) that promote and sell products and services that either do nothing for the end user or are flat-out spammy. I don’t think it’s fair to go into the blackhat posters with their own self-interests simply because there isn’t all that much for them to gain directly…merely “spreading the word” doesn’t necessarily gain them anything personally or professionally. So I don’t know if that’s all that relevant.

    How much of a role did Danny play in landing advertisers/association with blackhats/spammers/etc.? And how much of it was Jupiter Media’s (and now Incisive’s) doing? Again, I don’t know and I don’t think anyone else does either. The only way we’ll find out is based on what Danny does next, especially if he goes off on his own.

    That’s what I’d personally like to see…who he really is on his own without a Jupiter Media or Incisive to worry about as far as representing a company and its values. Let’s face it, when we’re under the thumb of The Man, he dictates our viewpoints and opinions to a certain extent. Keep in mind the last time any of us really saw that was about 10 years ago, and people do change.

  49. WOW nice cheap shot as he is on the way out the door. Are you a Flyers fan or a Rangers fan? 😛

    Anyway, I really have to say that I am nowhere near being black hat, and many of the other people I associate with at SEW are not either. The bottom line is really about results, though. I would never hold anything against so called black hats, because the study of their methodologies is always inspiring. Take for example this: Would you say that was done black hat or white hat? Who TF Cares? Isn’t it beautiful?

    Anyway, Danny and SEW will both keep chugging along, I think. I am just excited about all the possibilities in the future for both parties.

  50. I’ll add to that Chris, if I may.

    To the best of my understanding, Danny doesn’t publically support either blackhat or whitehat seo. He’s a reporter and an excellent representative for the whole of the SEO community. There are outright whitehat mods in the SEW forum – to the extent that one of them (not Chris) publically stated an aversion to agreeing with *me* about something that was nothing to do with black or white – but it was me. And there are blackhat mods there too. Danny didn’t gather blackhats for the forum, and he didn’t gather whitehats for it either. He gathered experts in their fields, without any bias one way or the other. That’s how a reporter should be – non-judgemental, and that’s one of the reasons why he represents the whole of the SEO community to the engines so very well.

  51. > Danny S, IMO (and no, I’m not alone in this opinion) has been habouring SE spammers on SEW for for many years, both before and after.

    Ah, Springer Fourm Marketing, my old friend. Yes, I have a room full of black hatters, actually. I’ve hidden them from the white hat attack squads. They are very frightened, but when it’s safe, I’ll let them out again. It’s not well known that I also have a black hat breeding program out here in England. That’s why there are so many. The breed like rabbits. Put two black hats in a room, and something like 10 magically come out in a few hours. No one knows about my breeding program because the tinfoil on my windows helps keep out noisy aliens who would beam them up to their spaceships for probing.

    > The “SEO conferences” that Danny S has been involved in have given spammers a platform and hence credibility on many occasions.

    And damn, pesky Google and Yahoo keep funding them as well. Which do you think would put them out of business faster, me never talking with a black hatter or the money flow from the major search engines being shut off?

    But I won’t argue it further with you Dave. You’ve got your opinion, which you like to raise at every point, and that’s fine. I don’t really respect your opinion, since I think you twist things entirely out of proportion. But I respect your right to air it.

    > To the best of my understanding, Danny doesn’t publicly support either blackhat or whitehat seo.

    Personally, I’m a white hatter. Personally, I think that’s the way any new to SEO should start out. But I also understand that it’s not completely black and white, and I also understand that the search engines know this too. I also understand and believe that we don’t get anywhere with this industry by putting people into corners and pretending they don’t exist, have nothing to contribute and so on. And I’ve explained this so many times that I’m not black or white but blue.

    > How much of a role did Danny play in landing advertisers/association with blackhats/spammers/etc?

    None. I have nothing to do with the advertising. I haven’t dealt with the advertising since I sold SEW back in 1997. Folks can believe that or not, but that’s the case. FYI, if you go to my site now, say my personal site Daggle, and see a supposed “black hat” advertiser like Text Link Ads, that’s again due to my ad agency that handles ads on that site. Now who does that again? Oh, yeah — Google AdSense.

    > Let’s face it, when we’re under the thumb of The Man, he dictates our viewpoints and opinions to a certain extent.

    In terms of editorial content on SEW and the SES sites, I’ve been under no thumb. Again, you can believe that if you want or not. But if it was ever dictated to me what I should cover, how I should cover it and so on, I’d have left long ago. So if you don’t like that someone was on a particular panel, that I wrote a particular article, that I allowed a particular discussion on our forums, you needn’t blame Jupiter or Incisive. Those were my decisions. That was my job.

    And thanks for the kind words, Matt 🙂

  52. Danny was an independent contractor (read the legal definition) vs. and employee. That enabled him to be AUTONOMOUS (to a point), even though he was, and is, wise enough to be a good politician when he needs to be. However, Danny did give his honest opinions when he felt strongly about something, which were insightful. He chided and praised the decisions of the individual SE’s, the decisions of the Search Marketing Associations (and the management of both), individual SEO’s-SEM’s opinions, traditional media, and legal decisions that affected the Search Marketing Industry. His OVERVIEW of the industry is unique, and for that one thing I am grateful to Alan Meckler for helping Danny achieve that expansive awareness in Danny’s early days.

    I’ll never forget when Danny and Chris Sherman dropped off the board of SEMPO, because of the potential for the appearance of favoritism. Later he made his opinion clear, IMO, of the SMA-NA helping to rid the industry of a SEM firm who was doing things that were a lot more evil than the misnomer “Black Hat” implies, while SEMPO sat back and took a neutral stance.

    As my last post here stated, I’m hoping Danny takes advantage of venture capital (as long as he doesn’t have to give up his “first born, male child” to get it), or forms a partnership with someone (or “ones”) wealthy enough to start a business that can further help the industry. The reputation of the Search Marketing industry has a lot to do with its future growth. Again, I don’t know any one person who could help more with that.

  53. Thanks for stopping by, Danny.

  54. Dave (Original)

    Danny, I started to read your replies but lost interest about line 2. However, the 2 lines I did read WERE very much in “Springer” style.

    In a nutshell, it is my opinion that you have NEVER had the best interest of the SEO industry at heart. It’s all been about self-interest and $. This HAS come at the expense of the industry as a whole.

  55. Dave (Original)

    Ok, as you did stop by I guess I should read you “post”

    RE: “But I also understand that it’s not completely black and white, and I also understand that the search engines know this too.”

    That’s typical, keep the masses confused and always blur the lines. It IS simple, you are either within the SE guidelines, or your aren’t. So, for many of us, it is black & white, just like you are either cheating, or you aren’t.

  56. Matt – can we get an ‘ignore user’ facility here?

  57. Dave (Original)

    Yes, as they say, ignorance is bliss 🙂

  58. Just had a thought

    All this the doom and gloom regarding the state of the industry is a bit early isn’t it. Quote Danny’s website
    “After ten years, I’m leaving Search Engine Watch and almost certainly leaving the Search Engine Strategies conference series as well. My contracts with their owners Incisive Media are expiring, and we’ve not been able to agree on new ones.”

    As far as I know he is leaving SES and SEW, not leaving the industry as a whole (Yet as far as I know). The resource is still there, and the respect gained from many of the industry is still there to be called on if required.

  59. IGNORANCE IS BLISS! (I know I should stay out of this, but I can’t help myself on this one point.)

    “That’s typical, keep the masses confused and always blur the lines. It IS simple, you are either within the SE guidelines, or your aren’t. So, for many of us, it is black & white, just like you are either cheating, or you aren’t.” = A perfect example of “twisting” things, IMO.

    Proof can be found on the “Why are sites blocked from the Google index?” page (I’m only using Google as an example, Matt, as all the SE’s have a “We cannot comment on the individual reasons a pages may be removed (or NOT removed).” policy.

    Danny doesn’t control SE policy! However, I loved Danny’s quote in a comment on a 4/13/06 Threadwatch post entitled “Define:SPAM”: “spam is whatever a search engine decides it to be. they’ll give guidelines, and we can use them to a limited degree to avoid trouble, if that’s what we want to do. but they can and do pull stuff for things not listed as spam, while they also allow some things that are technically spam to go through. in short, it’s not spam until the fat search engine sings that it is by pulling you. That’s also why different search engines may have different definitions of spam, while it’s also why those of us outside search engines might entirely disagree that something is spam. But while we can argue, we don’t get to be judge and jury as the search engines do.”

    I, also, respect Dannyy’s wisdom for not responding here any further. I will now adopt the same wisdom.

  60. Yes, as they say, ignorance is bliss

    You should know. You are very happy (blissful) that Danny is leaving SEW.

  61. Danny has been a beacon in this industry and a great resource. As just learning SEO for my personal site, he has been the center of knowledge. I will keep a look out for where you land.

  62. Danny,

    My intent wasn’t to accuse you of anything…it was strictly a case of me wondering aloud some of the things I had questions on privately. To some extent, you’ve managed to answer those questions. There is still doubt, but that’s something only time will be able to answer (as I pointed out originally.)

    As far as the advertisers on your site (as in, I would never blame any site owner for a contextual ad that appeared on a page of their site unless it was painfully apparent that they were targeting that keyword or phrase on said page. Having read your blog from time to time, you don’t appear to be doing that (I’m not going to say you do or you don’t because I haven’t read all the pages and I wouldn’t know even if I did.)

    Personally, I wish Google would do a better job at prescreening both advertisers and publishers and get rid of a lot of the crap that’s in there now. It’s counterproductive to their own efforts in some cases (e.g. TLA, much as I hate to harp on them) and it makes the publisher look bad if an advertiser is a content scraper or something of that nature. Mind you, I understand why they don’t (especially in the advertiser case)…they’re givin’ a holla holla to the dolla dolla bill, playa. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it.

    The ones that appear on SEW? I suspected you didn’t have much, if anything, to do with them appearing on the site or buying ad space or whatever and I tend to believe you when you say that you didn’t sell them the spots personally. But again, neither I nor anyone else outside of the company knows what goes on in it, and things aren’t always as they appear to be on dis here Intarweb thang.

    As far as The Man is concerned, what I was referring to is your own ability to comment objectively on various products and services promoted by SEW advertisers. It’s going to be a lot more difficult for you to speak negatively of if you think they offer nothing of value because of the fact that they advertise on the site, and if there’s an employee at Incisive that you think is a ranting, raving idiot, you probably aren’t going to post in the SEW forums advising everyone not to listen to that employee.

    All of this is perfectly understandable…you’ve got a job that you want to keep (for the next two months and very slight change, anyway) and you don’t want Incisive breathing down your neck. I get that. There isn’t a thing in the world that is wrong with it either…you have to protect an income source.

    This is why I’m reserving judgement on anything related to the situation until December 1st or after. Not all of it has played itself out yet, and there’s no point on commenting on what a bunch of idiots Incisive are or are not, or whether you support white, black, blue, purple, green, yellow or polka-dotted hat, until I see what plays out and the effects (if any) that this will have on the search engine landscape. I’m not saying what you are or you aren’t, and I’m keeping an open mind to any possibility (including the extremes of Dave being completely right and Dave being so far off the mark he’d need a map to find the target).

    This is also why I’m hoping you go totally indy. Be a gun for hire. Or build something similar to SEW. Or build something for the SEO industry in general. Whatever you do, make it your baby, and stay in charge. Don’t sell it off. Grow it. Then we can really see what you’re all about and what you do/don’t support, without corporate intervention or sponsorship.

  63. Dave you are talking trash and bullshit about Danny, in the publishing business (that’s the business Danny is in) you present both sides of the story, Danny has done this and you want to paint him with a Black Hat label, that sucks man, let the reader decide what to believe, a publishers business is to present both sides of the story!

    I have never known Danny to back down on an issue because of pressure from Google or any other engine, his job is to provide intelligence without pulling punches and he has done that for years man!

  64. Dave (Original)

    RE: “You are very happy (blissful) that Danny is leaving SEW.”

    I wouldn’t say that………………….yet.

  65. Dave (Original)

    RE: “Dave you are talking trash and bullshit about Danny….”

    No, not at all. I cleary stated in was my opinion. You and many others don’t agree, so what????

    RE: “in the publishing business (that’s the business Danny is in) you present both sides of the story, Danny has done this….”

    Yes, with a large slant toward his own personal opinions.

    RE: “let the reader decide what to believe…”
    Well I’m a reader and HAVE decided. Why not let me decide? I think what YOU really mean is, let the reader decide UNLESS their decesion differs from the most popular one (yours).

    Heck, I’m normally called Matt’s lap puppy, or simliar, on this blog (You know, about the same level of maturity as “defend Danny” posts). Now, I clearly dissagree with Matt and I get the same school yard retorts thrown around. But, I DID expect it 🙂

  66. I meant what I said, you are talking trash to garner attention for yourself with cheap shot tactics, a low class show if you ask me!

    How about we let the readers decide it Dave?

  67. Danny will be fine! He is a talented person and have skills. Change is the nature of the search engine business. He understands marketing and promotions.

    I will his perspective until it rejuvenates again on another channel. Those that respected his ideas and judgment will miss his commentary until he resurfaces.

    Danny, I wish you blessing of peace, happiness and joy until we hear from you again.


  68. Dave (Original)

    Do you ever post without letting your delicate feelings dictate what you write? (that’s rhetorical).

    What you REALLY mean is, only voice your opinion if it concurs with the popular opinion (yours).

    Now, IF I really wanted attention don’t you think I would at LEAST have my URL shown? (that’s also rhetorical).

    Perhaps English isn’t your language (China perhaps and that’s NOT rhetorical). Would go some of the way to explain your confusion and not WANTING anyone to post anything but the most popular perceptions of Danny.

    RE: “How about we let the readers decide it Dave?”

    I already answered that. “Well I’m a reader and HAVE decided”. It’s quite obvious what YOU REALLY want is readers to decide based on ONLY the popular pereception.

  69. So what you are really saying is that Danny sold out the community to make a few dollars, right?

    Danny let SEW turn into a Black Hat forum?

    Danny’s stories are bias toward his advertisers?

    I have followed Danny since 2003 so I would be interested in hearing more from you on this!

  70. Sorry to hear you’re leaving Danny but I’ll be one of those waiting to hear what your newest venture will be!

    Best wishes and all the success in the world. You deserve it!

    Kind regards,

  71. Dave (Original)

    RE: “I have followed Danny since 2003 so I would be interested in hearing more from you on this!”

    Oh I don’t doubt that for a second. But you wouldn’t, you have already made up your mind as do all followers. You should try thinking for yourself sometime, IF Danny does leave the SEO arena completely that is 🙂

  72. You are a crafty orator Dave, but you are smart enough to know when you have dug a hole you can’t crawl out of, great talking to you today though!

    Everyone that knows me understands what I meant by following, meaning being aware of, not following in lock step!

    Danny and I have had words and disagreements so don’t try the propaganda act, it is wore out and you are found out!

  73. Dave (Original)

    LOL! Dug a hole now have I? I thought I was posting for attention to my user name. You are one confused person Anthony, not suprising though and I bet it started about 2003 🙂

  74. Dave (Original)

    Oh, BTW, oration is spoken not written.

  75. Dave, maybe you should take up comedy, because most of your comments are funny and you have made a joke out of yourself!

    Later Dave, you are fast becoming our favorite entertainer on Matt’s Blog!

  76. Small things amuse small minds 🙂

  77. This is definately a tremor, maybe even an 8 or a 9 as you suggested, but overall it will be good for Danny and the industry as a while. I’m sure it will expand, unless Danny joins Brett Tabke at Pubcon. Hopefully not! (Sorry Brett). It’s just that I think Danny could easily start a new SEW/SES, and with a large group of loyal followers.

  78. Dave we all love you for being the White Knight that holds the banner for all White Hat SEO’s!!

    What would we be today without you??

    Matt give Dave a cookie now!

  79. This seems to have fallen into a flame thread…. funny how people try and make themselves stand out by bad mouthing others… guess it is easier than trying to show how good their own game is….

  80. Actually, it a case of some not wanting others to express opinions UNLESS they concur with thier own. What was that 60s song? “Narrow-minded people in their narrow-minded ways” 😉

    Ok, resume flaming 🙂

  81. Flaming, hell you are the best entertainment we have in the SEO community Dave.

    Why would we flame you man?

    No one else can create great fiction like you can man, you can spin a story out of thin air man, we need content creators like you real bad.

    I love you Dave!

  82. RE: “I love you Dave!”

    Oh, dear, you aren’t you going start “following” me now your Messiah have left are you? You sound like one of those freaks we THINK only exist in Movies.

    BTW, now Matt has change the verification to adding 2 numbers, how do you cope? Calculator perhaps 🙂

  83. LOL Dave, I think he put that in for people with low IQ’s only, I don’t see it, mine says, Anthony, you get a free pass because you flame Dave!!!

    Just come out and admit it Dave, you were wrong about Danny and he made you look bad on SEW and are still mad about it.

  84. I was made to look bad Spam Engine Watch? That’s news to me. LOL! What was it you were saying about “fiction” 🙂 Try another guess.

    I was VERY clear why I don’t agree with Danny’s ‘ways’. Heck, even his one post in response to mine he did he usual trick of talking out both sides of his mouth. That is, he rants on Jerry Springer style then winds up with “But I respect your right to air it.” LOL!

    It’s patently clear that YOU do not like people airing opinions that differ to YOURS. If that WASN’T true you would have never started trolling me. Either that or yourself and Danny are closer than I think 🙂

  85. Ah but you are the mystery man Dave, you have our interest now, we want you to lead us the right way, the White Hat way, the only way, free us from commercialism, global warming and from the corruption of advertising!

    What is your website again Dave, ashamed a bit?

  86. You are getting more confused with each post. It’s funny though, so keep on guessing.

    Now, what exactly are you hoping to achieve by flogging the dead horse? So far all you have done is shown fear to opinions that differ to yours. You should conquer that hurdle before you start to feigning concern about “right way, the White Hat way, the only way, free us from commercialism, global warming and from the corruption of advertising!”

    I’m sure Danny is very proud of your efforts to associate his name with your trolling habits.

  87. You know, I’ve sat here and I’ve watched this go down. And while I don’t agree with everything Dave says, the fact that he doesn’t publish his website on here doesn’t make him “ashamed” or “a bad person” or anything else. If anything, it makes his opinions on here carry a little more weight than those of us who do publish their websites on here (including me, so yeah, I’m not putting myself above him), because there is no immediate vested interest.

    What’s Dave going to gain by saying something? Not a damn thing. He’s not promoting his site…he’s not selling anything…he’s not on here bitching about how his crap-assed site doesn’t rank while another crap-assed site does…he’s just voicing his opinion. What’s his opinion? That the sites that don’t go around trying to circumvent search engine guidelines and that don’t try to lie, cheat, and steal their way to the top shouldn’t suffer at the hands of those who do.

    Someone really oughta string him up by the smaller of his testicles for that outrageous opinion, eh? GIT THE LYNCH ROPE, JETHRO! WE’S GOIN’ STRING UP A WHITEHAT, BY GOLLY!

    So why do you guys slag him so much without any real point behind it?

    And if Dave’s site is so bad, why not reveal it, and show how we can tell it’s Dave conclusively? Go ahead. You made a statement, now back it up..

  88. Adam, I believe it’s called “clutching at straws” in many Countries 🙂

    I find it immensely ammusing (although immensely contradictory) that Anthony Cea (and few other narrow minded people) don’t believe *I* should have the right to state my opinion on Danny S. Yet, Anthony has no problems with stating his opinion about me based ONLY on my user name on Matt’s blog.

    I have absolutely no reason at all to show my site in my profile here, or anywhere else I post. I get MORE than enough hits from Google alone 🙂 Or, perhaps I don’t even have a site 🙂

    RE: “You made a statement, now back it up..”

    I think we will find that Anthony, like any other troll, is all talk and no action and cannot walk their talk, only talk thier walk. Trolls always have been, and always will be hollow, shallow and narrow-minded.

  89. Dave has no opinion, only lunacy, he never even bothers to answer questions because he has nothing but fabrications to offer!

    Dave is an entertainer whose act is wore out!

    Why you ask?

    Because he never bothered to answer these charges I laid on him, so I repeat for all.

    Dave please answer these:

    So what you are really saying is that Danny sold out the community to make a few dollars, right?

    Danny let SEW turn into a Black Hat forum?

    Danny’s stories are bias toward his advertisers?

    We are still waiting Dave!!

  90. So let me get this straight, you don’t fully understand what I wrote about Danny (hence your questions), yet you don’t like what I wrote? Danny seemed to know exactly what I was talking about, funny that 🙂

    Anyway, as you are getting more and more confused with each post let me break it down for you & spoon feed you. Sorry, you’ll have to wipe your own crap of your chinny winny 🙂

    RE:”So what you are really saying is that Danny sold out the community to make a few dollars, right?”

    “In a nutshell, it is my opinion that you have NEVER had the best interest of the SEO industry at heart. It’s all been about self-interest and $. This HAS come at the expense of the industry as a whole.”

    Seems clear to me.

    RE: “Danny let SEW turn into a Black Hat forum??”

    “Danny S, IMO (and no, I’m not alone in this opinion) has been habouring SE spammers on SEW for for many years, both before and after. SEW has been advertising spammers for as long. They have a VERY ‘clicky’ group of known spammers the virtualy run the forum DO protect their black hat mates.”

    Seems clear to me.

    RE: “Danny’s stories are bias toward his advertisers?”

    “Yes, with a large slant toward his own personal opinions.”

    Seems clear to me.

    So, from the above, we can conclude you are a Troll who is Trolling because you don’t like me to posting my opinion on Danny S. Seems clear to me.

    BTW, I believe there was a question for you in Adams post 🙂

  91. Dave, who is we?

    Now we find out you are a coward that just repeats the same lunacy over and over!

    Are you afraid to expound and embellish your thoughts (fabricated story) and to answer questions now Dave ?

    Matt give Dave another sucker!

  92. Oops, sorry Anphoney, bet that confused you…….more.

    Anyway, all I said was “yawn” I have grown tired of you, ta ta.

  93. Probably worth getting back on topic, which was ultimately what the thread is about.

  94. I’m so sad Dave, I was looking forward to some White Hat SEO lessons, I have not been getting much of that at the “Black Hat” forum at SEW that Danny has run for the last few years!

  95. RE: “I’m so sad Dave..”

    Now THAT I agree with. Glad ended this with an agreement.

  96. Danny Sullivan will be back for more action quite rapidly, no doubt.

  97. Yes, I am sure Danny Sullivan will be back with more action. He has built an empire and has proven to be great personality in Internet Marketing industry.