Feedback on Bigdaddy data center

About a month ago I alluded to a data center called “Bigdaddy” that people could check out as a preview. We’re ready to collect feedback on the Bigdaddy data center now. Let’s start with some Q&A.

Q: Why are you giving this a name? Isn’t that normally the privilege of Brett Tabke and the moderators at WebmasterWorld (WMW)?
A: Brett and WMW normally name updates. But this is neither an update nor a data refresh; this is new infrastructure. It should be much more subtle/gentle than an update.

Q: Why is it called Bigdaddy?
A: That’s a good story. Bigdaddy got its name right here:

Big daddy!

At Pubcon, there was an hour-long Q&A session one morning. After the session was over, a bunch of us skipped the next session of talks to talk more in the lunch room (that’s me in the blue shirt). I knew we had a test data center that would need feedback, so I asked for suggested names. One of the webmasters to my right (JeffM) suggested “Bigdaddy.” Bigdaddy is his nickname because that’s what Jeff’s kids call him. So I said I’d use that the next time we needed a name for feedback.

Q: Why did you wait so long to ask for feedback?
A: There were a couple reasons. First, I knew that Bigdaddy wouldn’t go live before the holidays were over. Second, the team working on this data center wasn’t showing it 100% of the time; at night, they’d take it out of our data center rotation to tinker with it. That would have been a recipe for confusion. Now we’re past the holidays and the Bigdaddy data center is live 100% of the time. In fact, Bigdaddy is now visible at two data centers: and

Q: Do you expect this to become the default source of web results? How long will it take?
A: Yes, I do expect Bigdaddy to become the default source of web results. The length of the transition will depend on lots of different issues. Right now I’m guessing 1-2 months, but if I find out more specifics I’ll let you know.

Q: What’s new and different in Bigdaddy?
A: It has some new infrastructure, not just better algorithms or different data. Most of the changes are under the hood, enough so that an average user might not even notice any difference in this iteration.

Q: I noticed some ranking changes across all data centers. Was that Bigdaddy?
A: Probably not. There was a completely unrelated data refresh that went live at every data center on December 27th. Bigdaddy is only live at and right now.

Q: Is there specific types of feedback that you want?
A: We’d like to get general quality feedback. For example, this data center lays the groundwork for better canonicalization, although most of that will follow down the road. But some improvements are already visible with site: searches. The site: operator now returns more intuitive results (this is actually live at all data centers now).

Q: What else can you tell me about Bigdaddy?
A: In my opinion, this data center improves in several of the ways that you’d measure a search engine. But for now, the main feedback we’re looking for is just general quality and canonicalization.

Q: Will this datacenter make me coffee? Is it the solution to all possible issues ever?
A: No. No data center will make 100% of people happy. For every url that moves into the top 10, another url moves out. And the changes on Bigdaddy are relatively subtle (less ranking changes and more infrastructure changes). Most of the changes are under the hood, and this infrastructure prepares the framework for future improvements throughout the year. If you see a webspam or quality issue, let us know so that we can work on it.

Let’s finish off with a couple more Q&A’s.

Q: I see something weird on the Bigdaddy data center. Should I leave a comment on your blog?
A: Please don’t; that’s not the best place to leave it. 🙂 I would leave the feedback either in a spam report (for webspam) or the “dissatisfied” form for any other feedback. The only Google person reading the comments on this blog will be me, so your feedback will get the best bang-for-the-buck if you put it into one of those two forms.

Q: Are you sure you don’t want me to just drop a quick comment about my problem here? Right now?
A: I’m about blogged out for the day, and there are better places to discuss this stuff (WebmasterWorld, Search Engine Watch Forums, etc.). The best way to get people to process your feedback is to use the spam report form or the dissatisfied link, make sure that you include the keyword “bigdaddy” and try to be as specific and clear as you can.

Okay, now let’s get to the meat of this post: how to give us feedback on Bigdaddy. I’d be delighted to get webspam feedback, but I’m most interested in hearing feedback about canonicalization, redirects, duplicate urls, www vs. non-www, and similar issues. Before you send in a report, please read my previous posts on url canonicalization, the inurl operator, and 302 redirects. Now here’s where to send feedback:

Reporting spam in the bigdaddy data center
I definitely want to hear about webspam that you see in Google. The best place to do that is to go to . In the “Additional details:” section, I would use the keyword “bigdaddy” in your report.

Reporting other quality issues in Google’s index
Do the search that you’re interested in on or, then click the “Dissatisfied? Help us improve” link at the bottom right of the page. Again, fill in details and use the keyword bigdaddy so that folks at Google can separate out feedback specifically about this data center.

If I see feedback reports that aren’t helpful, I’ll try to provide suggestions for how to give solid reports that we can use.

Update: is the preferred data center to hit. I edited the post to make the first IP address listed.

Update2: Made the WMW and SEW links more specific/correct.

189 Responses to Feedback on Bigdaddy data center (Leave a comment)

  1. Hi Matt

    Thanks for all the information this evening – all very useful!

    Just a quick question – what was going on a couple of days back? Many people at WMW were seeing the test DC results on their default Google – including myself.

  2. Your link to WMW isn’t working. Is it down?

  3. I remember that, you didnt get the angle where goodroi and I were laughing at you. 😉

    Busy day Matt – lots of awesome information. Really nice to see.

  4. Supplemental Challenged

    “I’m most interested in hearing feedback about canonicalization, redirects, duplicate urls, www vs. non-www, and similar issues”

    No change whatsoever, and sorry, but reordering the site: search doesn’t count. Duplicates still exist. Redirects continue to be ignored. Nonexistent URLs continue to be shown.

    Where’s the beef?

  5. Thanks matt very useful info, i have one quesiton right now i see very big differences when doing a site: command on the current and the test datacenter and also see different pages indexed in 1 and not the other, will data be combined or is this how its going to be?

  6. Matt,

    If there is any chance you could elaborate a little bit about the December 27th “data refresh” I would very much appreciate it.

    – Tim

  7. They seem to be two different sets of results. Which update is out of rotation?

    (looks like the new one…over 50,000,000 results)

    (looks like the old one…19,200,000 results)

    Personally, even though I’m not ranked as highly in the one, I prefer it simply because none of my clients lost and one of my clients got back some significant positioning. If I’m the only one not ranking first-page, quite frankly I don’t care as long as I’m not buried.

    One other thing: at least from an upper/lowercase standpoint, there’s still an issue with URLs. I even coded a 301 redirect in the case of one of my clients to attempt to help remove some of the duplication from the index.

    If you look at #7 and #9, they’re actually the same URL but one is capitalized using the standard rules for such whereas the other is lowercase. They’re the same URL, and in the case of the upper/lowercase one, there’s now a 301 redirect coded specifically to take you to the lowercase URL.

    I don’t know if this is significant, but I used ASP to create the following:

    Cat_URL = “” & Low_Dead_Page
    Response.Status = “301 Moved Permanently”
    Response.Redirect Cat_URL

    Whereas the Cat_URL represents the absolute lowercase version of the URL (i.e. Low_Dead_Page).

    Is this not something big G recognizes? Or am I redirecting too quickly?

    I’m willing to fix it if it will help. But I’m not sure what else I could do with that code snippet.

  8. Feedback about searches in other languages (e.g. Spanish) are welcome?

  9. Kentucky Redneck


    The new datacenter results looks great to me 🙂 cant you just go ahead and flip that big google switch and turn it on…. I’ll send you a Ale8

  10. Just wondering if this is part of a canonicalization problem. On big daddy our index page is always in the 2nd position when doing a search, above it in number one position is usually a variety of recently crawled pages.

    Other than the above concern, I think it has solved a lot of the canonicalization problems we seem to have had since last Feb.

    Any insights on possible future pagerank you can give me or other webmasters who lost pagerank due to the canonicalization problems last Feb. would be greatly appreciated. Basically just give us a heads up if we may soon get our old pagerank back or if we are starting over. Either way it is just good to know where we stand.

    Thanks for your awesome post it will help webmasters greatly and also thank you google for addressing these redirect and canonicalization problems.

  11. Before you send in a report, please read my previous posts on url canonicalization, the inurl operator, and 302 redirects.

    Good stuff, those posts. Wonderful 🙂 And the “Bigdaddy” testbed is interesting too, especially with the Braille Google logo – makes it look even more special *LOL*

  12. “Q: Will this datacenter make me coffee? Is it the solution to all possible issues ever?”
    Please email me when you can answer yes to both of these questions.

  13. You gave 2 datacenter IPs. Can you explain why the result set seem to be different between them?

  14. Hello Matt,

    I see different results (from France) between and

    The first one seems to be the actual with slight changes, the second one is radically different and I see REALLY less spam on it.

  15. Hmmm…I wondered why there was no one in our “link buying session” after your coffee talk (where you just told everyone not to buy links) 🙂

    Great piece of work, can tell you’ve been working quite hard on this one. Congrats.

  16. Should and show the same results?

  17. Did you guys sit around and shout ‘whooooooooose your daaaady’ at any point?

    Did any women give you strange sideways glances?

  18. Wahey!!! My first “bigdaddy” report is on its way 🙂

    I’ll look on with interest

  19. Lee, the Bigdaddy data centers can be (I believe) in the regular rotation. So at times we may send part of traffic to those data centers.

    Mmm. Ale8. Mmm. 🙂

    stuntdubl, all part of my cunning plan to pull people towards the white. 😉

    rob, that never even occurred to me. But now I’m feeling an uncontrollable desire..

  20. >But now I’m feeling an uncontrollable desire..

    LOL, u go dude, trust me, said loud, in the right places, its quite invigorating!

    Interesting index too. Um..just need to figure out why my aff sites on page 3 + for all queries… 😉

  21. rob, that never even occurred to me. But now I’m feeling an uncontrollable desire..

    God I’m glad I don’t work there. The last time I heard that yelled was in Catholic school and I was 12 and…never mind. 😛

  22. Dirson, yes absolutely we’ll take feedback in Spanish or other languages. The “Dissatisfied?” link may only show up on, but you can do the search on, click the link, and then say “this is feedback for a Spanish search. Here’s the url. …”

    Search Engines Web, most of the changes is new infrastructure. Then there’s a few new algorithms to handle the underlying changes. But there shouldn’t be much algo changes as far as spam, relevance, ranking, etc.

    Tim, just the normal mode of automatically refreshing algorithms with newer data. We wanted to wait till after holidays so that there wouldn’t be too many changes during the shopping season, so the data refresh may have been a little larger than a typical refresh. Sorry I don’t have much more to offer than that.

  23. Hi Matt,

    I’m replying to your call for feedback on bigdaddy.

    My site was severly dropped in the SERPS last September 22, for what I assume was either a duplicate content penalty and/or a Canonicalization issue.

    First on the canonicalization issue. My site is
    and on specific term searches such as mushrooms
    The results first turn up all the “www” versions of the pages on my site. All of these pages are marked as supplemental.

    I have a 301 redirect to the non “www” version of my site for all 10,000 pages. So, I assume that when the vast majority of my searches turn up “www” supplemental pages first in the results, Google has a Canonicalization problem with my site.

    With respect to duplicate content, Google has my site listed at 74,000 some pages and I only have 10,000 pages. Somewhere along the line, Google picked up many duplicate copies of my pages and then gave me a duplicate content penalty.

    In November I completely changed the CMS system I was using and updated my site. All of the old pages that were duplicates are now non-existant and return either a 404 or 410 code in the headers. I’ve checked this multiple times. Google has since spidered my site at least three complete times and still the problems are not resolved.

    I have tried very hard to build a solid content site, enjoyed by the public. I’ve also tried very hard to stick to the Google guidelines.

    If you look at my site, you will see that I use no spam or tricky SEO tactics.

    Please, please, please Google, can you help me fix this problem?

    Pat Michaels
    Publisher, Editor, Webmaster

  24. Sometimes I wish I had a better idea what google considers webspam. I know that there is a link that gives some definitions, but there is an option for other. Could you shed some light on what other may mean? Or maybe give me a link to what you would consider to be close to other? 😛

    Thanks for the great info Matt

  25. I’ve still seen some results as:

    Both at time, in the same search.
    It may be still improved.

  26. This new datacenter have more images?

  27. It’s interesting to see how Google (well, you) now actively seeks a conversation about results *before* letting them loose on the world. Matt, I’d be interested to know how many feedback reports you get (either by spam reports or the dissatisfied link) and whether or not you’re able to read all of them.

  28. OK, this one may be a little long…. bear with me….

    Say I got engaged on New Years eve (yeah, Big Daddy finally proposed… OK, he didn’t, and if he had, my wife would have beaten him up!) and I want a cool wedding, not in the US, but some wonderful beach affair on distant shores…

    I head off to Google to start my research… keep it simple, I think, I’ll search for “beach wedding” (without the quotes of course, I’m not a search marketer or anything….

    Result #1: A wedding Favour store. Hmm… I haven’t planned my wedding yet, why is this relevant? We’ll give it a relevancy score of 4/10 (it at least targets favours with a beach theme)

    Result #2: OK, an article on beach weddings – cool. Oh, there’s nothing else on the entire site about beach weddings. Score: Page: 5/10 (not a whole lot of use), site in general: 1/10

    Result 3: A wedding planner in Hawaii, this is good, though we’ve decided against Hawaii, 10/10 for relevance though!

    Result 4: Another Hawaii wedding planner, OK, relevant, so 10/10, but surely there must be some other places out there… lets move on…

    Result 5: A possible… another article on beach weddings… but only one, again… out of the entire site, so back to 5/10 for that one (1/10 for the site as a whole)

    Result #6: Beach wedding dress page on a pay-for-page site. OK, I’ll be needing one of those, although there’s nothing else here to help me with my plans. 5/10

    Result 7: Another beach wedding article. This one part of an article farm generating adsense revenue. There are also articles on monkeys, blankets, bluetooth and Croatian Music, though the site is a children’s portal. A children’s portal for children in India. Article relavancy: 2/10 (it has absolutely no substance) Site relavancy: 0/10

    Result 8: At last. A private island in Fijii, offering weddings. If only I had the money! relevance: 10/10

    Result 9: An e-store selling Hawaaiaiaian wedding clothes – yup, that’s good, not brilliant, but good. We’ll give it a 6/10 relating to the search term.

    Result 9: A page in a pay-for-listing site that is simply a list of links to hundreds of wedding related things in California. Not beach wedding ‘things’, though a tiny percentage are, but just ‘things’. Google’s making me work hard here, searching a page of links for something relevant, so only 4/10 here.

    So in the top 10 results. the ones Google thinks are the best there are for that search, the average visitor would find 4 that are of any use.

    4/10? Is this the result of months of tweaking, tuning, honing?

    Oh dear.

  29. Matt,

    Some sites have a hard time getting indexed but on the test center they´re indexed just fine. Is there a slow down on indexing on the “old” datacenters or is this just a coincedence?

    I like the results on the biddaddy center. Seems to me that page content and link quantity use to determine rankings is more balanced now (meaning before it was a bit too much links and not enough page content).


  30. TY for the info and happy new year. From the way you are talking about this update it sounds as if rather than having an ‘update’ Google is moving to a system of continuous updating, from the 1 to 2 month update period mentioned. So that a server comes into play when updated and out of play when updating I guess this is so that the results are consistent as possible over the Google network. Sounds Good

  31. hi matt,
    thank you for the info! one question: what would be the reason that one would not rank for its own UNIQUE domain name? the index page of this site is PR6 and still does not rank like it used to before Sep 22. the top results are the sites that mention this site. any ideas?

    thank you, sid

  32. Sid,

    What’s the site?

  33. sid, how are your backlinks? Are they strong (i.e. editorially chosen, given for merit)? If you backlinks are less strong (link exchanges, paid links), that can be a factor.

    Peter, the results on the Bigdaddy data center seem a little more fresh to me too. I don’t think it’s because the old infrastructure has had a slow-down.

  34. Matt,
    You say the datacenters are
    I noticed the changes on January 2nd, but the 2 datacenters that
    appeared to be sowing the results then were
    Was anything to do with it?

  35. This is the best change I have ever seen from google. Canonical issues and duplicate issues have been completely and totally fixed.

  36. hi matt,
    thank you for your reply. I hardly look at my backlinks, but there seems to be quite many. lots of scrapers take my content and some links come from there as well.

    coluld this be due scrapers taking my entire pages and Google can not tell who the owner is? this seems to be the case as the scrapers rank higher than I do on my content and so do proxy sites that Google has been indexing.

    any comments would be of help.

    thank you, sid

  37. “Big Daddy”, of course, is a famous character out of Tenessee Williams’ “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof”. I feel like having a “Bouron” right now.

  38. Hi Matt,

    Allot of great information here.

    Thanks again for sharing and being so patient at Pubcom!! I know all about patience raising 7 children.

    Have a great 2006!!


    Big Daddy

  39. T.J., I’m not aware of anything special going on at those data centers. I’m pretty sure it would be unrelated to Bigdaddy, at least.

    sid, I’d look less for scrapers and more for any other types of links gathered by trading, selling, automatic means–stuff like that. That’s just my guess.

    Jeff/Big Daddy! Great to have the original Big Daddy in the house! 🙂 Tell your kids that you have a data center named after you. 🙂

  40. I think the next update should be named “WTF”.


    Because every time there’s an update, everyone complains about WTF is going on with Google.

    (I’ve got nothin’.)

  41. Matt

    I’m not seeing a good handling of internal duplicate content on the bigdaddy servers. What I mean is if a site has an old page that has been replaced by a new one almost a year ago, and the old url has been giving a 404. The old page is still in the index(albeit supplemental) with a cache from almost a year ago when it was a current page. In other word, the bigdaddy servers have some cached pages that are as old a a year ago, pages that were not even in the regular serps as recent as two weeks ago.

    I know this because we have had a problem for almost 10 months with our internal category pages not ranking like they use to…..we have been suspecting that we are having a duplicate content issue so we have been chasing accidently duplicate content for the last 6 months (spending almost 15 hours per week on it). So we know what is in the index and know we are finding pages on the bigdaddy servers that have been 404’d for almost a year.

    Arggg, now I got about 30 more pages I need to try and kill from the index. I feel like a hamster on the treadmill.

  42. PAT fron

    Wish I had a way to contact you, we both seem to be trying to over come the same internal duplicate content problem or so we assume.

    Matt, could internal duplicate content be causing a ranking loss on interior pages. I have internal pages that have good PR, good quality links, but it seems like whatever is done to help them improve for relevant searches, nothing happens. BTW, the keyword are not all that competitve, many less than 500K

  43. Matt,
    Thanks for posting that picture! I could see myself and a friend, Lane, over in the left hand corner, just as plain as seeing an ant on the ground from a moving car…haha.

    We sure did enjoy that whole seminar…but the private time with you was worth the whole thing! Thanks to Brett Tabke for such an outstanding job, and you for your patience.

    I told everyone it looked like Jesus being followed around by the disciples…:-) No comments from the bible thumpers, please…it’s just a joke!

    Thanks again, Matt

    Myrtle Beach

  44. Sid, I have the exact same problem. I cannot believe why backlinks would cause something like that. I cannot control who links to my site or should I start emailing webmasters and asking them to remove links? I’ve never been hunting for links, just focusing on on-site factors.

    I’d also like a quick comment on the December 27th change. The effects are similar to September 22nd – suddenly a well ranking site is nowhere.

  45. Hmmmm

    so is bigdaddy following them ??

  46. LOL you stripped out the NO follow tag 😉

    dont’ the question still stands did bigdaddy follow some nofollows 🙂


  47. @BigDaddy (the original one)
    you’re 5 five ahead of me – are you getting paid for this? you either got nerves of steel or you must be deaf 😉

    the other big-daddy did not bring much changes in my sectors – which is got with me 🙂

  48. Matt,

    Regarding my site –

    I see pages that have been incorrectly marked as supplementary coming back as fully indexed pages. This situation was caused by a hijacking and various other problems including unintentional duplicate content caused by poor programing of a session id based quote system.

    The strange thing is – for my site at least – odd pages have been picked as the ranking pages by the algorithm.

    My site operates in uk financial services and for phrases such as life insurance uk our page on home insurance is being displayed rather than the home page (primarily optomised for that product area).

    I suspect this may be the lingering effects of the problems the site previously had many of which have been ironed out.

    I also had a canolonical problem with my main site this has been fixed on this data center as well.

    In terms of the data as a whole –

    It is more difficult to comment on if you are using a regional google for your market. Very few people in the uk use the .com Vs the these days and the rankings are very different if you have to use a uk at the front or end vs a straight keyword search using the regional google to filter the results for you.

    That being said looking through the results I can,t find a fault in my keyword area some very good sites ( not owned or operated by me) have been brought back into the serps ( although perhaps not where they deserve to be on the value of the site to a propective client) after they were tanked. Generally a better choice of sites than with the current data.

    So from my angle job well done (RIDER – for most in the uk this is irrelevant till we see the same characteristics in the regional version as exibited by this data center and also how it handles the regional filtering)

  49. Matt

    With regards to feedback from Big Daddy DC – I had a Canonical problem on the Homepage and Big Daddy seems to be dealing with that correctly now. However the site still has crawling and ranking issues.

    You are talking about infastructure at this stage rather than ranking changes – so are you requiring feedback from sites that seem to have the Canonical problem fixed but still dont rank – or is better to hold off on this feedback until the infastructure leads to the next rank change – make sense ?

    EG no point some of us reporting to your engineers along the lines of – It had Canonical probs which are fixed but the site still doesnt rank – if this is not to be expected at this stage.

    Obviously if the rank is to be expected then some of us will have to look at other reasons for the sites maybe having problems – would be useful for you to clarify.



  50. This is feedback on the bigdaddy datacenter. I would have left it in the “Dissatisfied” box as suggested, but the 1000 character limit wouldn’t allow me to fully explain the issue. I hope it’s OK to post it here.

    I have gotten a weird and replicable result I wanted to share.

    I did a search for

    It works like a charm…until you get to the 11th page of the results (or beyond).

    I then get an error message that says that automated requests are being sent from my network or computer.

    I investigated whether something had gone awry with one of the tools I use that uses my Google API key. Found nothing. I also did a virus scan and spyware scan as suggested by the error message. Nothing again.

    I have replicated this result from 3 different networks and computers. All generate the same result. At this point, I’m pretty sure it is an error on the Google side of the fence and I thought you might want to know about it.

    What is interesting is that my access doesn’t really seem to be cut off (as the error message implies). I can immediately do another query and have it run fine. It just looks like I get this screen when I try to the 11th page of results or beyond. Normal queries run fine beyond 11 SERP’s (example: search for Microsoft by itself).

    Just seems weird to me and I thought you might want to know.

    Thanks for your time.

    Eric G. Myers
    Director, Search Marketing
    Quest Software

  51. Hi Matt

    Thanks for the informative blog which i found today – I’ll be checking back.

    1) I like Bigdaddy – it seems to ahve solved a lot of little niggles (googles doens’ ahve big niggles IMHO). What is the projected date for full rollout? Any ideas?

    2) What was the data update on teh 27th december you alluse to? I think I see a lot less from the blogs, but I’m not sure – is that what happened?


  52. I’d hate to sound grateful for the BigDaddy info – but are there any regional searches that we can test results on for feedback?

    It would be great if some of the bigger Google children –, .ca, .etc – were able to provide feedback on BigDaddy results coming to national search only, especially as quality control issues are quite possibly going to be more marked in these niche areas.


  53. I’d hate to sound grateful for the BigDaddy info – but are there any regional searches that we can test results on for feedback?

    Wouldn’t you rather hate to sound ungrateful? 😉

  54. Matt, can recip links to any harm to a website’s rankings? Or are they just given lower value, and do not result in any algorithmic penalty?

  55. So why exactly is the “Dissatisfied? Help us improve” link only on the first page. Don’t you think it would be more beneficial if a user can report bad SERPs from the page they see it on instead of having to backtrack to the first page??? I thought the link was disabled when I tried to find it while surfing until I stumbled on it about 30 minutes later by accident.

    Just my 2 cents.


  56. I have an idea for an improvement that is probably too late for this update, but would probably serve future updates well and save a whole bunch of people a lot of grief (including you, Matt.)

    And here it is: or penalty:

    Instead of having people guess at why their sites are being penalized or banned, why not just tell them? For example, a SERP for this could appear something like this:

    Hyperlink to site’s URL with title tag.

    If site is guilty of a crime, replace description with *** banned/penalized for the following reason(s) ***
    list reason(s) here
    Otherwise, simply list *** This site conforms to Google webmaster guidelines ***

    page here – page size here – Cached (don’t really need the similar pages, unless you’re planning on showing other people who are guilty of the same algorithmic offense)

    Here’s why I think it would be a good idea:

    1) Sites that were banned/penalized would know why and wouldn’t be asking you, the other Google engineers, or every SEO/web discussion board out there anywhere near as much. Think of the man-hours that would save!

    2) Most webmasters would fix their problems if they knew that such problems existed, thus cleaning up a lot of inadvertent spam and blackhat from the index.

    Obviously there are some people who will continue to manipulate as opposed to fixing the problems that exist, and this would provide them a clue on how to do so. But, since the vast majority will have cleaned their acts up (and likely asked for a reinclusion requests), these attempts will usually become more obvious and therefore more likely to be reported and algorithmically/manually eliminated.

    3) Pursuant to 2), you guys would have more time to devote to improving the algo, providing more relevancy, expanding your AdSense reach, gaining market share (less spam = more regular users), and making more money.

    And, since you’d be the engineer that implemented my idea, you’d be a conquering hero and make celebrity tours and Google would give you a nice fat healthy bonus (okay, maybe I’m stretching here.)

    The point is: rather than make one or two examples public, make them public on a wide-scale and allow webmasters at least the partial opportunity to clean up their acts and conform, should they choose to do so. I know I would if I were guilty of something I didn’t know about, and I’m sure I’m far from the only one.

  57. David,

    Actually they pay for themselves and then some. 7 times as many other parents to network with and sell them a home!!

    Life is great!!

    Big Daddy!

  58. >> Q: What else can you tell me about Bigdaddy?
    >> A: In my opinion, this data center improves in several of the ways that you’d measure a search engine…

    TEASE! So tell me, how would *you* measure a search engine?

    >> or penalty:
    >> Hyperlink to site’s URL with title tag.
    >> *** banned/penalized for the following reason(s) ***

    Great idea! Then a site can know if it’s been penalized, or just doesn’t rank well. I’d say this goes along with the idea of G contacting webmasters whom it thinks can improve their sites when penalized.

    Con: I can go to a competitor’s site, do a query, and see what they’ve done wrong at the moment (and vice versa). Then again, maybe that wouldn’t be quite so bad …

  59. I just wrote a huge response that got knocked off by the security code. Perhaps the massive response wasn’t necessary after all.

    1. Adam, i used to believe that the penalty visibility would be important. Especially when Jagger3 knocked a client’s site on it’s Back Daddy. But now I don’t believe it would be a good idea at all. The only thing that would happen is that Grey-hatters would continue to push the envelope and tweek strategies until they knew how to optimize for every little allowance without getting a penalty. this isn’t helping webmasters, it’s helping SEOs who want to concentrate on the algos rather than their own sites, and more importantly–the users.

    2. Matt, I’ve definitely seen some great improvements in the new BigDaddy searches. Congrats on that. I have one very important question that I can only hope you try to answer:
    I definitely want to hear about webspam that you see in Google.

    Ok–I’ve done the spamreports, done the “dissatisfied” submissions (yes both using the keywords–first jagger then jagger3 then BigDaddy) for months. If there is no responses in sight, what is a website owner supposed to do when spammers still get to rank at the top–BigDaddy or not??

    Right now, a site ranks #1 for “Alcohol Rehab” by participating in a link scheme…well that is if you consider 100 unrelated sites using the same link-script-page a “link scheme”. Here is a rehab, a Singapore travel site, & a Maine Insurance site all using the same page AND RANKING:

    The same tactics are working across several other keyphrase queries.

    When SpamReports & “Dissatisfied” submissions don’t work, and updates don’t seem to help, what’s a site owner supposed to do? Either beat them or join them. Well I’ve been able to succeed in Yahoo & MSN with content… but not even BigDaddy caught this??

    There are also 3-4 different networks of about 30-40 duplicate-content-driven satellite sites used to inflate the link pop/PR of other sites ranking in the top 10 for these keyphrases. Ultimately, these sites account for 6/10 of the top 10 and perhaps 12/20 of the top 20.

    Matt, if you’re so pro-white-hat, then please give me a reason NOT to use these ridiculous strategies. I don’t want a network of 40 crappy websites nor do I want to join one of these stupid link farms.

    No offense to anyone, but this isn’t “sexy lingerie” or “gardening supplies”, it’s a very serious industry space where people really need help and it can be life-or-death at times. Ethics matter. Any advice??


  60. Brandon: I had the same thought, and I don’t really see it as a positive or a negative.

    It allows for the potential to see who could quickly get back into the race for a given keyword or phrase by fixing things, and it might force webmasters to think proactively instead of reactively in terms of maintaining position.

    It would also lead to two competitors, presumably with white-hat intentions, going after a word or phrase, as opposed to a black hat vs. a grey hat or a black hat vs. a white hat or a grey hat vs. a white hat.

  61. Matt:

    I would like to see an answer to Pat’s question.

    Note: Please, an answer from Matt, not from random-know-it-all.

  62. When you do a site: query, do the results (ordering) have any significance?

    Also, if you have a site with more than 3-5000 pages and the results show 29,000 is there a way to see which results G is showing beyond the 1000?

  63. An update on Dec 27th?

    Now I understand why traffic doubled on my site. That’s cool 🙂

  64. I wonder if the duplicate-content spammers at will finally be penalized by the BigDaddy update?

    They seem to be immune to all penalties. It makes me want to become a black-hat!

  65. Hey Matt, Was wondering if it’s ok with you if I quote in two of my relevant websites what you said here about both ‘canonicalization’ and ‘reinclusion requests’ (with credit to you of course)? Thanks.

  66. “Wouldn’t you rather hate to sound ungrateful?”

    Quite right – my bad – otherwise my original sentence suggests a level of dry humour I just don’t have. 🙂

  67. Ledfish Said

    “PAT fron

    “Wish I had a way to contact you, we both seem to be trying to over come the same internal duplicate content problem or so we assume.”


    Contacting me is hidden away as a comment form on my privacy policy page
    at article1029

    I won’t put the rest of the url so as to not mussy up poor Matt’s comments with what may come across as spam links.

    Let’s compare strategies.

  68. Hi Matt,

    I couldn’t avoid noticing that the search interface powered by the Bigdaddy centre bears the name of the language (English) instead of the name of the country. Is this how Google in the States looks like? Or is it a global Google roll-out more linguistically targeted?

    Talking about language, I would like to share a couple of things about the linguistic relevance of search results in Google outside English-speaking countries, something that has been a bit of a thorn on the side for a majority of ordinary users who do not speak or understand languages other than their own. Just to clarify what I mean by language and countries please bear in mind, that as a Brazilian, I am talking about Portuguese and Spanish in Latin-America.

    In order to make it clearer for everyone to visualise the issues, I would like to share a few statistical data collected by appointment of the Brazilian Government last year on Internet usage and penetration in Brazil ( I believe we can assume the situation in other Spanish-speaking countries in the South-American subcontinent are similar.

    As expected, the number of users in Brazil is small, counting with approximately 12 million people connected to the Internet out of a population of 185 million. According to the Brazilian Internet census, from this total just 20,81%, or 2.4 million people, use the Internet to search for information and online services. The most interesting fact about these numbers is that the total number of users connected to the Internet is in their majority from classes A and B, which are the most proficient and resourceful in the use of Internet.

    The Language Issue

    I believe one of the reasons for such a small adherence to pivotal services such as search engines might be rooted on the fact that those services are still to offer the same ease of use in UI and quality in search results without much linguistic interference from other languages.

    Our search settings are set by default to serve results from the web. This option yields results in any language.

    Although, terms such as ‘acarajé’ (an Afro-Brazilian bean fritter) are easier to find in pure Portuguese, results get more confusing when one is researching for scientific terms; terms that are orthographically similar in several Latin languages such as ‘politica’; or, international names of places and celebrities, just to mention a few.

    Even when our users select “results in Portuguese” for a term such as ‘florida’ (full of flowers, in Portuguese and Spanish) in, that does not guarantee they will get results in the language they had to make the extra effort to select: their own.

    We feel that not only there is a lack of linguistic consistency in the results served but also what seems to be a not very well contextualised or culturally usable approach of search services inside the Portuguese and Spanish-speaking world at least.

    The Florida example

    A search for ‘florida’ in with ‘results in Portuguese’ enabled made on 05 January 2006 yielded the following in the first page:

    – third result, vernacular Latin;
    – fourth result, vernacular Latin with a few English words at the bottom of a document from the Netherlands.

    Just a couple of weeks before, the same search with the same settings brought a couple of English results just after the ones in Latin.

    If you make the same search you will notice that there are a few other results with descriptions in English. In fact, those pages are in Portuguese and despite the bad linguistic accessibility they were not taken into account as foreign results in a Portuguese-only search in my personal research.

    As known, from a SEO point of view, description meta-tags have little or no influence on the major SE’s. However, they are the first point of information for users whenever search engines such as Google decide not to display excerpts of the text surrounding the keywords requested.

    From a human point of view, despite the fact most of the blame goes to the web content producer who wrote the meta-description and the content itself, search engines could do better in not letting a whole meta-description in a language other than the one selected by the user slip or be displayed in the SERP’s. As you know and might have said before, the description might not be important for the SE robot but it is for the user.

    The language changes, the principle stays

    Living in the UK and being able to communicate fairly well in English, I find it admirable to live immersed in a culture where all the information is readily available in the local language: from the technical books that help you as a professional, to the gadgets and their manuals to even salsa classes: everything is linguistically ready for consumption. You guys got it right: serve it in simple and clear English and you make it psychologically accessible for the consumer’s desire.

    My suggestion is that Google’s default language results in country pages should be in that country’s language(s). It is not only usable and accessible (both socially, culturally and interface-wise) but in a context such as the Brazilian, would give a hand to local developers trying to show the other 80% non-searching users in Brazil that searching for information in a ‘national’ SE brings the results they are expecting without any hiccups and hindrances. Most of all, it would help to uphold the Internet as a democratic resource that caters for all equally.

    In a sense, the way it is now is like watching a subtitled film, either you concentrate on the dialogue or watch the action. Even those commanding the art of reading and watching a film at the same time do not deny it is much better to watch motion pictures in their own language.

    The “Pages from Brazil option” issue

    Unlike the UK and other countries that liberated the purchase of national domains to anyone, since the beginning the Brazilian government decided to reserve the and domains strictly to companies with a registered office in Brazil. Contrary to the disputable gain in creating a market free of speculation, this has created a trend amongst Brazilian web developers and designers to open their websites with .com or .net domains instead.

    On top of that, a considerable number of the most affordable hosting companies in Brazil are actually merchant customers of hosting companies in the US. The same happens in other countries as well, even in the UK where thousands of are believed to be hosted in much more affordable American hosting companies.

    I believe the way Search Engines, including Google, have been positioning content as pertaining to a certain country according to the domain and where it is hosted is missing a trend that is going completely to the other direction.

    Yes, it is not Google’s fault that the academics at Fapesp (the institution that used to take care of the .br domains) have dictated that, if one is not an institution or a liberal professional registered in an official professional association, all that is left is the dubious domain.

    SEs could improve their localised SERPs tenfold if they considered that certain national domains are hard to acquire and that a significant amount of sites in the western world are hosted in the US either in paid host companies or in free host services such as blogger and geocities.

    Possible workarounds for the ‘pages from…’ problem:

    a. Extend the algorithm to check the content of the page (keywords, addresses, language, etc…) and interpret what country that page belongs to. It can be a bit complicated for multi-national sites hosting pages in several languages side by side, but if big multinational sites can, then the solution might already been in place somewhere just waiting to be rolled out across the globe.

    b. Language differentiator chart (stemming). When I was a kid, my father, a Spanish immigrant, used to write down how to say certain words in several languages spoken in the Iberian Peninsula (Portugal and Spain). He would start with a word like ‘action’ then by using stemming he would progress from ação to acción then, acció, açon, etc…

    Every Latin language has a set of characteristics that differentiate them from each other. I believe Google is already doing something in that sense as we can not see as many Spanish results in Portuguese-only searches as it used to be before.

    c. Inbound and outbound links from a certain country. It could give a clue to bots of which country the .com or .net site belongs to.

    d. Country opt-in via Google Sitemaps or other XML resources. Extending Google Sitemaps functionality to accommodate XML language/country declarations would be great and also help the algorithm to judge where the page is from.

    e. XML namespaces in the HTML tag of the document.

    f. Target country meta-tag. HP uses it already:

    g. Country hint in the URL. In the same way SE algorithms read keywords in the URL, it could be helpful to extend the algorithm capability to analyse a .net or .com as pertaining to a country via the countries XML abbreviation in the URL. Example:

    http:/ / www .foreignsite. net/br/index.html

    h. DMOZ indication. Use of DMOZ’s country categorisation as a validator of a site’s origin.

    None of the workarounds suggested above would in fact work alone (after all, we don’t live in an ideal world where everyone says the truth in their meta-tags) but the group of them used together in different priorities and weights against indexed pages could help to decipher whether a .com or a .net is an American site, a site from any other country in Latin-America or a mail order company based in Jersey trying to expand its business to other countries by faking its origin.

    In any case, what I would like to ask Google and other Search Engines is that a new way of looking into the linguistic challenges mentioned above be studied with sincerity and that you help us develop our small market by offering search results and search interfaces with language options that, by default, are relevant to our audiences in both sides of the digital divide.

    We’ll be looking forward to ‘Bigdaddy’ but we’ll be more joyous when ‘El Gran Papá’ and ‘O Paizão’ come home.

    Many thanks for your attention and looking forward to hearing more about what is shared above from you and your company.

    Luis de la Orden Morais

  69. Instead of having people guess at why their sites are being penalized or banned, why not just tell them? For example, a SERP for this could appear something like this:

    Hyperlink to site’s URL with title tag.

    If site is guilty of a crime, replace description with *** banned/penalized for the following reason(s) ***
    list reason(s) here
    Otherwise, simply list *** This site conforms to Google webmaster guidelines ***

    Con: I can go to a competitor’s site, do a query, and see what they’ve done wrong at the moment (and vice versa). Then again, maybe that wouldn’t be quite so bad …

    Hey Adam,

    Long time no see, eh?

    Excellent idea indeed! But instead of displaying that info in the SERP’s what about having these reports vinculated to the Google Sitemaps account? That would guarantee just the owner knew what is going on with his own site and would save users the trouble of knowing their favourite website has been naughty.



  70. Hi Matt,

    And on top of all the other thank-you(s) – please add one from us 🙂

    Question: Our 301 issue is with a supplemental listing. Is BigDaddy going to address those?


  71. Pat, you definitely have no manual spam penalties. Think of the Supplement Results as an index with its own Supplemental Googlebot, or (S.G.). S.G. doesn’t come around very often (sometimes not for months), but when it does, it goes much deeper.

    When the Supplemental Googlebot last visited your site, you had the www pages. Now you’ve gotten rid of those, but S.G. hasn’t been back around to see that. The normal Googlebot with the main index has been around plenty, and knows all about your change to go non-www, but normal Googlebot doesn’t have the ability to go into the supplemental results and change the urls.

    My advice would be to develop your site normally and not to worry much about the supplemental results. I’ll be happy to pass on the feedback that people want the S.G. to visit often enough to see changes in the site like this.

  72. Sarah, I wouldn’t expect BigDaddy to address 301s in the supplemental listing. The supplemental listings are really independent of BigDaddy and just sort over overlay on top of BigDaddy.

  73. I can’t see why you are always advertising for WMW, it’s really a terrible site (GUI,policies,overall quality of threads,search functionality)

    There are webmaster forums that are so much better in my opinion.
    (sitepoint,SEwatch and probably more)

  74. Dave, I wouldn’t mind if you a paragraph here or there, but instead of quoting an entry verbatim, I would prefer for you to summarize. That is, fair use quoting is fine with me, but I’d rather you didn’t copy the whole post.

    Hope that makes sense,

  75. Amen to that Peach!

    GoogleGuy is the only attraction keeping WMW alive.

    If GoogleGuy left, almost no one would put up with the crap at WMW any longer.

  76. Hi Matt,

    Thanks very much for the look see at my site and explanation of the S.G. That makes sense.

    I do believe that sometime during the summer as I was working on my .htaccess (I have 5 different ones on my site dealing with specific sections and DBs) that I inadvertantly transferred the wrong one to the root. So, it was my bad in the first place.

    I think I was too excited about my newest article at the time, “The Amazing Seahorse”

    I was totally surprised to hear that it’s the male seahore who gets pregnant and delivers the little ones.

    Moral of the story, don’t think about the sexual habits of marine life when you are working on your site 🙂

  77. Is there a way to KNOW when you look at if you are seeing BIGDADDY serps or not?? When i search for [sf giants]i NEVER get at #1 — was that a thing of the past or has bigdaddy been off a few days now??

  78. www vs. non-www issues are almost resolved on the new data center. 🙂 I see movement up on serps and hope with BigDaddy that I will mostly move back to where I was. You will see me jumping for joy if that happens and I get Google traffic back again. :-0

  79. Hi Matt,

    what is the new task of the Mozilla Bot

    Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +


  80. Hi Matt,

    This is really devastating news for us as the supplemental page is http://www.oursite/?referrer=google (our real URL is in my email address) with a cache of January 23, 2005 (no kidding 🙂

    And although last summer we put a 301 on http://www.oursite/?referrer=google to, which regular GoogleBot routinely finds and follows perfectly, we’re still clearly being hit with a duplicate penalty for this supplemental.

    Actually, during Jagger the cache for http://www.oursite/?referrer=google updated to November, 2005, so we thought that there was still hope. However in, the cache for has reverted to January 23, 2005. So it looks like we’ll need to switch to a new URL entirely to finally rid ourselves of the issue.

    Do you have any idea when the supplemental index may be refreshed?


  81. Sorry — dropped a couple .com(s) by mistake. The supplemental is

  82. 1. Adam, i used to believe that the penalty visibility would be important. Especially when Jagger3 knocked a client’s site on it’s Back Daddy. But now I don’t believe it would be a good idea at all. The only thing that would happen is that Grey-hatters would continue to push the envelope and tweek strategies until they knew how to optimize for every little allowance without getting a penalty. this isn’t helping webmasters, it’s helping SEOs who want to concentrate on the algos rather than their own sites, and more importantly–the users.

    I would agree with that in the very short-term. Keep in mind four things, though:

    1. What you’re suggesting is the classic criminal behaviour pattern.

    For those unfamiliar with this (and as a fan of the A&E crime drama shows, I’m quite familiar), it’s a pretty simple concept. Most criminals tend to repeat or increase the severity of their crimes until such a point as they get caught in the act. How many times have you not sped down a new stretch of road until you realize that there are never any cops on it, and then get the lead foot out and go faster and faster until you do get nailed? I’ll admit it; I do this all the time, and sooner or later, I’ll probably get nailed by a cop for it.

    Now…how does this relate to spammers and grey-hatters?

    Spammers won’t stop at keyword stuffing or doorway pages or IBL spam or Google bombing or any one of the 5,000,000 techniques out there. They’ll keep going. They’ll keep pushing the envelope. And the longer they do it, the more people like Matt will become aware of it.

    2. Competitors will either rat out the SEO types for their own gain, or attempt to compete on the same level. In the case of the former, the SEO stops (assuming Google agrees and reacts accordingly). In the case of the latter, the game enters continual escalation until such time as one or the other goes too far.

    3. If Google openly declares the reasons for getting blacklisted, they won’t have to answer millions of questions about it. This will allow them more time and resource to devote to further tweaking and improving of the algorithm as well as manual removal of those who choose to try and manipulate unethically. In other words, they’ll have more time to solve more grey-hat issues and in turn, shrink the grey area.

    4. I hope this isn’t taboo (watch Matt ban me from his blog now j/k 🙂 ) but you do realize that there are *GASP* other engines out there, and too much ######## around can lead to a blacklisting from those as well. So someone’s attempts to toe the line with Google could in turn get them burned on another level on another engine (and if the other two adopt the same policy, then the same types of things occur).

    So yeah, people probably will try to screw with the SERPs. I don’t doubt that. But the more Google stands up and says “hey, we’re nailing this site for this reason”, the more they say “hey, you can get burned for this reason too” and that will prove to be a deterrent in at least some cases.

  83. Sarah:

    Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the duplicate content filter (not penalty) would effect only the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc… “most relevant” ummm… “copies” of each instance of one of your web pages.

    In other words, the duplicate content filter would *not* lower the SERPS for _at least one copy_ of each of your pages.

    How Google determines which duplicate is primary… that is a complete mystery to me. All I know is that they are frequently wrong. 😉

  84. I´m also interested about the Mozilla Bot.

    Is it correct, that the new important Googlebot would be the Mozilla Bot? Is Bigdaddy the Mozilla-Bot index?

    What´s the diffrent between the Mozilla Bot and the Googlebot?

  85. Matt,

    Where did big daddy go?

  86. Hi Good Sam, is an exact duplicate of our home page that’s located at And we’ve definitely incurred a penalty in the SERPS as a result. Further, as it’s the text that sells, it isn’t about to be changed.

    And in thinking of changing URLS, another problem appears: we have great in-bound links and no out-going links so we’d want to 301 our old site to our new site in order to save the links. However, that would doubtless bring the problem right along – and we’d still be having to deal with the penalty.


  87. I have a strange problem.

    Google indexed my site I think on 5th January. I have in Google 20.600 pages. After two or there days..when it was Week End..I have only pages that was indexed before 1 January 2006, only 78 pages.

    After this..monday 9th January 2006, after 1pm it works fine..having all of my 20.600 pages.

    In the evening, 8 pm I have that problem..only 78 pages.

    After a short while, after 5 minutes I have all of my pages.

    Before I go to sleep I’d check to see how many pages do I have, and there was that only 78 pages.

    I’d spoke to people and they said me that I have an error..the shopping cart it’s written in I need a redirect to /cgi-bin/index.cgi. I was doing this redirect with a Java Script, but I heard that can cause problems, now I’m doing with this:

    Can you please take a little time to answer to this please.

    Thank you in advance,
    Adrian Cristian.

  88. I forgot to say: those hours that I mentioned was GMT time.

  89. No, 14:24 it’s working well

  90. Hmm, looking at BigDaddy earlier today on, (I did do the sf giants check to make sure the BigDaddy results were up), I see that, for my main keyphrase, the first page showing from my site is in the mid-sixties on SERP’s, and it is the links page.

    Now I’m not going to moan about rankings, because I’d largely expect a result in the mid-sixties, but it just seems really wierd that internal pages with no external BL’s are still showing up where the site homepage is not.

    This has been a recurring theme on forum discussions, so if there is any likely theoretical explanation that you can give, I’m sure it will get lots of attention.

  91. Guy !!! You at Google never reply to contacts . I used the form to inquery about a ban and got no reply for over 1.5 months .

    Thanks .

  92. Update to my previous comment:

    I just checked again and my homepage is now the first page from my site to appear in the SERPs for my main keyphrase. However, it’s down in position 126.

    So I’m not sure whether to cheer or groan…

    Obviously things are still in flux a bit.

  93. Ha! 1.5 months is nothing! I’ve been more than twice that long.

    Google seems to have no effective methodology for communications. Matt, charming as he may be, is not scalable.

    It appears that 95% of those e-mails get thrown into the bit bucket because Google just doesn’t care enough about producting quality search engine results to look into problems with their system.

  94. Hi Matt,
    just doing my weekly serps spreadsheet and noticed that they’ve all improved, dramatically. Looks like Big Daddy has been included into the index as of this morning, UK Time.


  95. Matts,

    Thanks for your useful information.
    My question is:why that 2 IPs you provided show different SERP?

  96. hi Matt,

    Thanks for highlighting this, well i have seen my future results on both of the DC’s and didn’t get any fluctuations in the ranking. But the major thing i have noticed is related to the GEO targetting. I am using GEO targetting in one of my site
    if anyone open the site from US then opens and if any one open the site from UK the opens. My site is still on top but the now is coming on the top. My site is in bigdaddy’s mouth???
    Keen to hear your comments


  97. Thanks Matt and Google developers for a new set of obvious improvements!

    How will Bigdaddy treat 301 redirects from an internal page to a root page of another domain?

    How high are the chances of passing the rankings that this landing page had onto this new domain?

  98. One more if possible – this I believe interests pretty much everyone here – do you have any news on how much more the transition will take?

  99. Hi Matt,

    We’ve been thinking about the onset of Big Daddy and wonder whether February 2nd is a good day for the event … Groundhog Day. Let’s hope we don’t have to do 2005 all over again 😉

  100. Hi Matt,

    Unfortunately for some reason you do not show my comments.
    Is this because you’re not comftrable with them for some reason?

    Are there different guidelines and SPAM laws for some wellborn websites, and other rules to the rest of us?
    How come that companies like that uses massive substantialy double content on their websites to increase search engine visibility don’t get a penalty for breaking this basic guideline. Here are some real world examples from their flagship website –

    exactly same content on 2 different sub domains. and I could fill this email with such examples.

    You can see Google bold preference is also for For example take a look at their sitemap, with thousands of links only, it was built for just for search engines. show me one human being that can get benefit from this sitemap… If I was building such sitemap like this on my websites I would have been banned in a snap.

    You may also find TONS of non useful links and ads only pages on, what you call if I’m not mistaken as “pages desined for search engines”

    Are these companies bulletproof?


  101. Hi Matt,

    I came across to a website and seen this website have Google PR 7. When I checkd I found 2,300 link back information according to search. But when I have open the link back pages I haven’t found any of the link back information on the pages.

    I will await for your answer.

  102. Hi Matt,

    Jan 30 still saw a lot of “Big Daddy” results shuffled into standard results over the past few days. I have also noticed that there seems to be quite a few splogs hitting top 10 results. Sending spam reports as requested but they seem to still dont seem to get banned (Im sure google get’s spammed with spam reports, and are working on automating the process somewhat.).

    Overall the results of this new data center look very positive, more subtle than “Jagger” but certianly more geared for the user.

    Keeping my eyes peeled for SERPS to come.


    I agree with “Colin_h” vote “Ground Hog Day” for launch!.

  103. What the hell is Big Daddy.

  104. hi Matts,

    i am very happy to find your website, i have a quick question for you. i was just searching around the website and found to be different than,GGLG:2005-51,GGLG:en&q=site%3Awww%2Eeasytackle%2Ecom

    you mentioned in one of your answer about that site: is changed in all the datacenters, than why this difference? Please advice.

  105. Matt

    Nice to see you greeting some of us more ordinary folks and providing a glimmer of hope in our search for better ranking and thus a better life! 🙂

    I have to say that on first glance at the picture above, i mistook the set up and wondered why some poor paralegic in a blue shirt had his legs on the table for everyone to watch !… it took me about 1-2 mins to work out that they werent actually legs but a rucksack instead !!.

    Keep the posts coming and dont forget the humour.


  106. How are you doin Matt,

    I just wana ask about the Big Daddy DC.. is the update on the algorithm still in progress?

    im pretty confused with its SERPS..

    Like example… When I searched for the keyword “psychic reading” , it seems the top result is about “tarot cards”…

    Thank you and Goodluck!


  107. PR7 and 2300 backlinks, Thats curious, because I came across a Dutch (.nl) website with an undeserved PR7 too. And guess what I has exactly the same backlinks as in the PR7 site metioned above.(29th)

    Matt, what’s going on here?

  108. The results from BigDaddy seem to have an opposite effect in some situations. The BigDaddy results show a notorious cloaker, page jacker, redirect artist at #5 for a very competitive term, where this site was #9 previously. The site is part of a big link network, and was bombed to the top within a few weeks… it is a one page micro site, on an advertorial, on a small newspaper’s domain.

    Isn’t this the kind of stuff G is trying to weed out? Seems the new datacenter favors this type of behavior.

  109. I hope with this new BigDaddy my rankings improve.

  110. Hi Matt,

    I’d really appriciate to read a response for the issues that Roy (R) has wrote.

    There’s also a very interesting article with facts on SEOChat:


  111. The results are improved in a big way. I am very happy.

  112. Hi
    Sometimes different browsers show different Google/Yahoo/MSN rankings for the same page and same keyword……please explain why this happens..
    Also, it was really strange when we found that a particular site showed PR 5 in the same browser of 1 computor and showed a 0 PR in 2 others!?!!

  113. Hi Matt!

    nice 2 hear about Googles intentions,

    but why can Google not handle site with different language start sites correct?

    it lasted month to find the English version and my Russian version seems never to be on the list. I also think Google should count multilingual Sites better than Sites in only one language.

  114. Hello Matt,

    I don’t know what to make of all this dancing that’s been around with Big Daddy. On one hand, I personally like what is displaying because most sites that I monitor are indexed properly and the position is great. But the problem is that it only last for a few minutes, because when I check the same website five minutes later, its indexed pages have dropped more than 70 % and the text of each link is no longer the right one. Is this normal because of all the trials Google is making? Not to mention the chaos displayed sometimes on the actual Google. There, the dancing is even more frenetically and that means losing a lot of traffic, thus a lot of customers or visitors in the case of web editors and of course Google also must be losing a lot. Let’s hope that when Big Daddy finally enters the stage, things will cool down a little bit. Thank-you and good luck with the trials.

  115. Yah! you are correct Ms.Roxana.

    Most of the sites are updated often. Yesterday I saw a site for a specific keyword at 100th position and after 5 minutes it has moved out from 100 to 300. How is it possible? If Bigdaddy is making a trial, then there will not be any static results for atleast 5 minutes. I am wondering what are the changes going to happen in Bigdaddy’s update and what are the ways to improve my site rankings. I think I have to update myself every 10 minutes.

  116. Hi

    I have been having a chat on digital point ( ) about one of my web sites that was doing rather well in google, but just recantly seems to have been de-indexed for no apperant reason and the pr set to 0.

    The web site is an affiliate site from pooldawg using their csv file to create and display their products. It would appear that my site has suffered due to this, as it may appear to be a scraper site pulling their content to my site. But surly this is what affiliate websites do that use csv files and such like. So now that the digdaddy update is “underway” will all affiliate web site now be penalized for using their affiliates csv files becuase if this is so, then affiliate web sites everywhere are going to suffer as the new update rolles out. These sites are not spam or scraper sites but affiliate sites and google must see this and not penalize us for creating them surley.

  117. If I am an unknown artist on my way to become famous, deciding the internet is the right place to tell the people in the world about me, I had to thing about google and their system.

    Google demands me to get good theme related incoming links.
    But therefore I had to ask or pay my competitors.
    My work is new and different but anyhow people all over the world from several cultures will love it (if they would know it). If I ask competitors for backlinks, nearly no one will answer because
    their art will look very old fashioned against mine.

    So this backlink-system works like the communism hadn’t work.
    To all this comes that google don’t trust our metatags and so we all had to pick
    with a bar in the (google made) fog (german adage).

    It all would very much easier if google began to trust us.
    Therfore I would be feel up to add some tools to my Site.
    For example a programm which manage my Linksystem so that
    every searchbot can see to whom I linked but also who had ask me for a link.
    The webmaster can decide to take or not to take this link, and the bots can
    read his decision in my tool and can think about both. So a decision to take or not to take this special link can be good or bad for my site (your decision), and afterwards everyone will handle the link-system much better.
    I think this could be easy and the bots become more and corrector information’s.

    And at last I have to say, that the Internet is showing the whole world, not only this what US-Americans held for it. I have a multilingual Site and it seems to me, that google
    penalties me for it (as mirror content) instead giving me some advantage for this.

    I think most of the spam problems google have are house made.
    I think you (google) earn money with our problems you have caused be your own strategy.
    And therefore you make a great ballyhoo like this here, that no one understands it.

    I know that’s not a real cannonical theme but this idea could very helpful to us all.
    I know also that such bot an my side of the web (for better understanding: the other side is
    the of search engines), bring new problems. But specialists can work on there, and they can know what’s needed.
    I, and most other webmasters, never would really able to know what’s
    needed in all this terms.

  118. Sorry, can I ask you what do you call a spam feedback? I mean, what is the definition of SPAM… thanks.

  119. Nice to see you greeting some of us more ordinary folks and providing a glimmer of hope in our search for better ranking and thus a better life!

  120. Hi Ashmita,

    Please find my response blelow your question

    Q: Sometimes different browsers show different Google/Yahoo/MSNrankings for the same page and same keyword……please explain why this happens…
    A:This is because the different browsers pick the data from different ips of the search engines. all the search engines uses the geo mapping thats why you get the different results.

    Q: Also, it was really strange when we found that a particular site showed PR 5 in the same browser of 1 computer and showed a 0 PR in 2 others!?!!

    Ans: It might be the problem of the google toolbar, or u have to check the IPs of the google on both of the computers if the ip are different then it means google is ranking you differently on its different IPs.


  121. With what happened with BMW – nice to see that google re-inserted them back in the index. My question is this – If it was an average joe that did this I don’t believe that it would have been as easy to get re-inserted for joe. Either we all get treated equally or google is clearly showing favourism here.

  122. So it looks like after a couple of weeks the “big daddy” was taken back offline last night. Have we any ideas as to when this data center will settle down to business? Overall I think that the new results were very positive and look forward to a permananet deployment.

  123. Old database: about 9,680,000,000 pages
    New database: about 25,270,000,000 pages indexed indexed

    Now how can these numbers be correct. i thought Google was trying to cut down and filter random and uneeded pages, so i would expect the numbers to fall. However, according to your #’s you have went up. How?????

  124. Can anybody explain me please when google is going to update its pagerank and serps.Because this Bigdaddy update is going from the last one month but still no stability in results, OR google will increase its time from 3 month to 6 month for an update.

  125. I noticed the bigdaddy data center update the sites slowly, but the current other google data center update the sites quickly. Dose the bigdaddy data center use different googlebot?

  126. How long will it take to complete BigDaddy DC? Because serps are still fluctuating and this is annoying for webmasters.

  127. What’s the differance. The black hatters will buy new urls and have a new site up in 1 hour. While some of us get caught up in the wave

  128. Interesting information and discussion, but the Big Daddy DC’s leave me a little concerned.

    We’re seeing subdomains of our site completely removed. Is this because you’re unable to determine their position vs as opposed to

    If I search for subdomain-mysite the result pulls up www-mysite which in part is ok, but not an accurate reflection of the content.

    Should we be thinking in making all pages again or are subdomains still a valid option for siteowners?


  129. When is Bigdaddy update is going to get end.
    & when will be the next update.
    How can I come to know whats the next update

  130. I see you were talking about duplicate content. What does this mean for me when I submit my articles to directories? Will this effect me or someone else that uses my articles? Or does it just have to do with content on my website?

  131. Today, March 22 my site dropped off a cliff. It is nowhere to be found. My site showed up on page one in #1 or #2 position for all my key words: watercolor paintings, watercolors etc. My placement has always been consistent over the years, until today. I now find that another URL (my name) shows up on page 3. Both URLS link to the same site, URL 2 has no back links. It’s only purpose is to direct people who know my name to the site. How did this occur and is there any remedy for me?
    Thank you

  132. Hi Matt,

    I note that the datacenters all give different PR and TK for the pages. Is Big Daddy more than just an infrastructure change?

  133. Hi Matt,

    Our web site has been around since 1994. Since your inception we have enjoyed our first page ranking. It has helped our community really grow. Recently our rankings have dropped drastically and I have seen that visitors to our web site from Google have dropped in half. I am searching for the reason. I have read your article on canonicalization and wonder if a legacy domain from our old hosting company is the culprit. If so, how to I fix that. There are hundreds of links to this old sub domain. Thanks in advance.

    All the Best,


  134. hi matt i see now a days google bots is not crawling pages… hardly visits now a days on existing sites and on new sites…is it bcos of update or algo has changed a lot and made things complicated ?


  135. Dear Matt,

    I need to understand about Big daddy datacenter and recent changes in Google rankings. Our Website enjoyed good ranking in Google for a long time but it seems that party is over. We are not able to understand where we have gone wrong. Though we have gone with the Google rules and regulation.
    Other amaging things which we have found that a no. of websites who are using spamming techniques like background color fonts, keyword stuffed pages and redirecting.

    I would like to know

    1. Can a company create multiple website based on their services and keywords? Suppose there is website that is into web development and design. Logically there should be only one website and all their services should be listed there? But there are companies who have made numerous website only they have changed the name of websites, if you see the address and phone nos. they are same and the funniest thing is that they do link exchange within these website openly and some how Google is unable to catch or Google is trying to promote this idea of monopoly. If this thing exists for long time I think we should start making new website for each and every service.

    Some example: Search for “website design India”
    This is one url which I found on page 5 of google result

    If I search “web design delhi”

    If you see the home page they have a lots of hidden word in background
    type “ flash web design delhi”

    result is

    The real website is
    if you search about pages listed in google you will amaged to find more 245 pages of the above website. But in reality only four or five pages are real.

    On the issue of multiple website of a company

    This is list of websites of a single company which enjoys good ranking with various key word (listed in Dmoz) (listed in dmoz)

    2. Dependency on Dmoz: The other issue is privilege to website listed in Dmoz. I really don’t understand why google need to give so much importance to dmoz. Because of google only every website’s dream to be in dmoz. The day google stop giving any weight age to dmoz listing Dmoz will be dead. Its good to preserve historical monument and past glories like Dmoz, I think google should create an online museum where all the great contributors to the internet should be there. But if it start creating hinderence in present then I think a serious thought has to be given. In India and every where Dmoz editors are in great demand as search engine optimizer and they charge premium from companies. That’s why you will find numerous listing of same company website in dmoz. Dmoz is good till the time it is free and fair but when editors take advantage of their position. How Google motto “do no evil” is in the lines of dmoz happening. I know it is really hard to make things like Dmoz but if google gives so imporatence to Dmoz Google must be in some position to make DMOZ more transparent and updated. Because dmoz is handled by AOL and google is a partner of AOL in their search results. Or it is case of carrying AOL burden

  136. Google is more wierd with every new day… Redirections are ignored, results that has nothing to do with the query, duplicates, banning original content sites… Unfortunatelly, but spam filters are more than bad… 🙁

  137. Bigdaddy update end?

  138. Is big daddy over? did anything serious change happen over the last week end – it looks to have change the search results significantly for my website – any update on that?

  139. The Big Daddy update was a long time coming and I’m glad to see it completed. The pagerank distributing changed on many of my sites but I didn’t much change in the results.

  140. Also, I think the update was a smoother transition than any other update especially Jagger.

  141. The current algorithm is pretty bad – actually some of the sites which are listed #1 in search are blatantly spamming! The algorithm was better upto this month beginning and it has gone back to rewarding heavy duty spammers!

    Any insight on this issue may help. If you need I can provide the keywords to help better understand what I am referring to.


  142. The sites which were cached by google on Apr 11 are dominating the search results. Does the result flow out of that data center alone?

    Will it get rectified or do we wait till the next algo update? Any idea whether big daddy algo will be constantly fine tuned or a tentative time frame for the next algo update can help. Honestly I think the big daddy algo is a mess as far as the result quality goes.


  143. Looks like this article was just featured in the latest advertiser newsletter for Real Networks under the Commission Junction affiliate program. Congrats on making the cut (hah hah, get it? Cutts…cut…ok I’m done, thanks)

  144. This message is for Seoindia.

    Yes you can have multiple websites with different services.

    Search engines dont care as far as you are not doing spam.

    You can lauch 100 website as well.

    I think and are very legitimate

  145. Jonathan Nelson

    Hello World!

    Looks like we are in another data refresh right now. I have been seeing index count numbers drop like rocks these past few days.

    Matt can you confirm that this is happening over all the Google data centers right now?

    Jonathan Nelson

  146. I´ve also on my 2 pages different PR`s between 0 and 4 since about a week – is this the new update and what`s exactly the mission target this time?

  147. I have also observed drop in index count of my various sites.
    Is there any new update going on or going to take place.

    Please Matt make it clear to us.


  148. Two ip address, two radically different sets of results. When do you think the data centers at Google will start giving consistent results?

  149. When searching for my own site using the following key phrase:,GGIC:2005-09,GGIC:en&q=Flash+game+Script

    I manage to see my site ( in position #4. However, click on search again and it go up to position #3. I have not change the key phrase to search… is this the effect of the new changes?

  150. Hi Matt

    I have been on a very steep learning curve these last few weeks as our SERPS listings have been changing. It is not the position so much that has changed but the title displayed. On the Big Daddy DC’s our page title has been displayed but on some of the other DC’s the title used in DMOZ is being displayed.

    I guess about a third of the DC’s are showing the DMOZ title and the remainder including the two big daddy IP’s are showing our title tag.

    I am interested to learn which results are likely to eventually be shown on the majority of DC’s?

  151. any theories when the next Google PR update occurrs ?

  152. Hi FGS,
    You are right, Google is on a belly dancing moment.
    I have noticed many sites on many data centers where their latest positions are dancing and a lot.
    If we take your phrase flash game script, your site shows one out of 2 , yout probability is 50% of your current visbility on 25 data centers I have checked.

    Many other websites have at this moment the same problem.
    One second, your position is top 5, another second you are 27th on same or different data centers with same frequecy of typing or sending your query command.

    Those belly dancing are not yet appearing on Big Daddy .

    Matt, or Adam is this due to the over 450 000 servers Google has and the correlation challenge between Human computing vs machinery computing ?

  153. Could you please tell me why my site has been added to supplement pages?

    I have noted that other websites that display my name are also considered as supplement pages.

    Thanks in advance
    Odysseas Psarris

  154. Hi Matt
    Out of all the DCs that I have searched, except for 3, the title tag displayed comes from “very old” DMOZ listing and since then the website has changed. Why cant the Googlebot read the current title tag and display it. This title tag was consistently displayed throughout the DCs before the BigDaddy. When will I get my current TITLE back? Its hurting :((

  155. Hi Matt
    Recently after that big daddy update, we see different results in different datacenters. Like if a search a same similar keyword in and in, it shows me different results. In UK it local sites are rankings high same with India. Hardly 2-3 results match with each other. Is it going to stay like this for ever.

  156. Something wrong after BD update. Two sub-pages with same PR. One has only one occurence of searched phrase in body, the other one has phrase in title, description and several times in body. Weirdly the first page overwhelmsthe second. What else can we expect to happen?

  157. Go Daddy……
    Its unpredictable……

  158. Could we have results displayed when those of us in the UK use the G toolbar? They’re usually much more relevant to us than the .com results and I bet that most UK searchers habitually go to not

  159. I have been following this discussion for months now.. every question/doubt that I have had in mind seems to have ben resolved. Tho there are some questions that have gone un-noticed and I hope someone goes back to the post and answers them. I can confidently say in a long time Its probably one of the best threads I have come across. Thanks.

  160. Hi Matt, I am you fan forever.

    Though the BIG DADDY Update is quite a huge shaky update for many websites. But the results does not seems to be very much relevant. I have found many a times that the sites which are parked are showing on first 3 pages for many competitive keywords.

    How about any future updates and NEWS are welcome.

    Keep me Updated…
    Anurag Singh – SEO Guru

  161. Great thanks for the post Matt. Nice to know about Big Daddy will like to know more.

    Vista Divine

  162. It is just a PR + BL update.

    After every update rankings will fluctuate in 15 days.

    Let’s hope for the best to happen.

  163. Bigdaddy data center latest news?

  164. I know that my Google positions, page ranks, etc. have been fluctuating a lot over the last couple of months. Some people are telling me that this is the Big Daddy effort. According to this blog, it seems like this has been around since the beginning of the year, but did it’s “main” affect just occur now? It seems to try to crack down on the black hat strategies of SEO of it seems to also have quite a major impact on general white hat strategies (which I mostly support) as well.

  165. Today I noticed great fluctuations in google ranking I checked through all google datacenters and many of them are showing weired results. Can anybody tell me which are the real data centers of google.

    I hope there is a update due in next week. Do update us if anybody know anthing about the next google update.

  166. Not really sure what is going on here, but we’re quite pleased with the changes. Go Google!

  167. Bigdaddy = Bigtable ? 🙂

    Hi Matt,

    I read this paper of Jeffrey Dean (jeff!)( about BigTable, and I have remembered this post about Bigdaddy…

    Was “BigDaddy” a consequence of “BigTable” start up? or just a names coincidences ? (Jeffrey Dean/Jeffm – Bigtable/Bigdaddy)

    Thanks 🙂 , Nicola
    Florence, Italy

  168. When is the next big google update coming?

  169. The google ranking fluctuations can be seen daily for competitive keywords. But the most awaited is GOOGLE PR Update. I hope it is due in few weeks.

    If anybody has exact idea, then update us.

    Indian Web SEO, India

  170. I have seen their is an PR updation… But that is only in some of the sites..

    I think google is updating the Page Rank according to the age of the domain..

    i;e google may would have divided the sited in certain domain..

    0-1 year
    1-3 Years
    3 -5 years and So on..

    And updating the Page in Order..
    What u all Say ?

    Search Engine Marketing

  171. Hey dude thanks for this info. I’ve been searching of this BigDaddy info for quite a long and found it here at at phil’s site!

    Take care


  172. Its good idea for me to change my hoster to big daddy….. I used to thought it bad but after this reading I think its good


  173. Some time i really wonder how Google change all the results.. i mean while upgrading of page in google ranking takes some time but surprising it disappers all the pages which took time to crwaled in ranking.

  174. Man some time google seems so hard for ranking… my site has come up in top in yahoo with each and every key word as i thought but google still not listing it.. it ‘s very annoying can any one tell what could be the prob or should i wait for some time..?

  175. Google finally updated page rank and backlinks. Now the Page rank seems to be stable.. Wait for 3 Months again for next update 🙂

  176. I started to work with SearchBigDaddy last month and find it very interesting and promising. In fact, so interesting that my company has signed up to be City Keyword Manager for two cities in PA: Allentown and Bethlehem. We’re really looking forward to the next step in their development! 🙂

  177. After Bigdaady update SEO rules has been changed. What is the name of next Google Update. Any body Knows ???

  178. Matt

    We have been fairly promoting our site
    since 2001. At that time we had focus on Coil Processing Lines (major business) and Infotech. If you visit our site you will still find both even today.

    After Big daddy update we have seen that our rankings change and it doesn’t balance as it used to be before. We have educational articles, blog, government sites linking to us etc but their is no improvement in Google. “Coil Processing Lines” – keyword has lost its focus.

    Many internet experts advised us to make separate sites for each business domain but we want to have all 5 business areas on one site. Coil Processing, Software Development, Cement, Factory Automation, Paper and Pulp are our stakes and we have separate profit centers with an average of 300 professionals in each division. Can we have one domain represent all and achieve good rankings. I realise that you do not discuss about rankings as their are several factors but is it possible that a single domain can have 5 business themes with separate folder structures relevant to the business.

  179. Hello

    It is better to have individual sites for your business divisions like Tata Steel, Tata Power etc.

  180. Hi all from Google Ukraine 🙂
    Its theme good for us.Thank you Matt from Ukranian Seo 🙂

  181. Google finally updated page rank and backlinks. Now the Page rank wait for 5-6 Months again for next update ! ?

  182. I read so much about pagerank and how everyone is so precious about it. I guess that if you’re at the top of the results and the content is relevant – then what the hell.. I’ve stopped worrying about it now.

  183. Here in the UK the Bigdaddy we all know and love is a huge gorilla, confident, powerful and not a little bit intimidating! The fact is though that he’s really a gentle, protective creature who wouldn’t harm anyone or anything. Dare we hope that Google’s Bigdaddy is the same ?

  184. A weird thing that was recently noticed by me. For some reason when I use firefox to find my photography site,my ranking is about 1-5 spots lower than if I use IE. It doesn’t make sense. I thought it has something to do with local/worldwide option,but its’ not. I tried clearing cookies and cache,but didn’t help. I haven’t tried other computers yet though. Still doesn’t make any sense

  185. Well, i really can’t believe i am at Matt’s blog.
    I read a lot about you on DP and other webmaster forums and had an interest in your articles and blogs.
    And so, finally i am here.
    I would check out this place regularly from now.
    Thanks Matt, you Rock!

  186. Great thanks for the post Matt. Nice to know about Big Daddy will like to know more.


  187. John Farr

    Yep I remember big daddy and giant Haystacks, not that was proper wrestling, two huge beer guzzling hairy backed monsters, all you get these days are oil covered, steroid pumped fairies. If big daddy is like the big daddy that I know, bring it on. No, seriously, anything to improve relevance in the search engines is good in my book!

  188. How often is actually pagerank updated, is it monthly or is it whenere data in datacenter are in a “spesific state”

  189. This was very interesting, mostly over my head though.

    I didn’t know we could report search engine spam before now. I have some to report. I know a few cloaked sites too.

    I will enjoy being a spam snitch!