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	<title>Comments on: Recent piece by Sanford and Brown</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/</link>
	<description>neat fun stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Brad West</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-424501</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-424501</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m here reading fun stuff like this just because. I also love reading I have two books started one just happens to be &quot;Innovate like Edison&quot;. I appreciate the tidbits of info that you experienced when you were in Florida. I guess today I&#039;m really not in the mood to read stuff I can disagree with I do that all week long. 

Don&#039;t know how I even got here, just following the blog trail link to link.

Thank you for having me, great read.
Brad West ~ onomoney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m here reading fun stuff like this just because. I also love reading I have two books started one just happens to be &#8220;Innovate like Edison&#8221;. I appreciate the tidbits of info that you experienced when you were in Florida. I guess today I&#8217;m really not in the mood to read stuff I can disagree with I do that all week long. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know how I even got here, just following the blog trail link to link.</p>
<p>Thank you for having me, great read.<br />
Brad West ~ onomoney</p>
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		<title>By: AhYap</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-340439</link>
		<dc:creator>AhYap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-340439</guid>
		<description>I too disagree on almost anything. It is hard to be a contrarian, you know being healthy when everyone is unhealthy, being rich when everyone is poor, being happy when everyone else is unhappy. I even believe that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ahyap.com/blog/cancer.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cancer is not a disease&lt;/a&gt; and keep telling people about it, and everyone respond is, you got to be kidding me. I also disagree with most of modern medicine theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too disagree on almost anything. It is hard to be a contrarian, you know being healthy when everyone is unhealthy, being rich when everyone is poor, being happy when everyone else is unhappy. I even believe that <a href="http://www.ahyap.com/blog/cancer.php" rel="nofollow">cancer is not a disease</a> and keep telling people about it, and everyone respond is, you got to be kidding me. I also disagree with most of modern medicine theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-339508</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-339508</guid>
		<description>While I disagree with the author&#039;s solutions, I sympathize greatly with journalism&#039;s plight. A couple of points...

1. &lt;b&gt;The headline is the product.&lt;/b&gt; Unlike the title of a book or a webpage, the title of a news story is valuable in and of itself. While I don&#039;t pretend to know the numbers, I believe I am safe in the assumption that a substantial proportion of news customers online are merely interested in reading the headlines. Occasionally those headlines will attract a click, but more often than not an individual visitor feels content to read &quot;GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company&quot; without delving into the details. Traditional media prior to the internet enjoyed the eyeballs of both those who wanted the quick headline and the complete story. A meaningful part of their product line has been pried away by Fair Use as I now can find those same headlines on virtually every web portal in existence. 

2. &lt;b&gt;Blogger&#039;s Aren&#039;t the Press&lt;/b&gt;. Notice that I didn&#039;t use the word &quot;journalist&quot;.  Yes, Danny Sullivan is a Journalist, but his argument cannibalizes itself when he talks about the benefits the &quot;press&quot; gets, such as a guaranteed seat at a Presidential Press Conference, or a returned phone call from a government agency. An organized news creation industry of wide repute and mass appeal is an essential qualification of an accountable government and economy. No one outside of online marketing knows Danny Sullivan so, as an independent Journalist, he will be far less effective at garnering the attention of those in power. Now, I am not saying that it can&#039;t be done, or hasn&#039;t, or that bloggers don&#039;t serve a vital role in the journalistic process (someone has to police the press too!), but imagining journalism without the behemoth news agencies is hard to do.  Will Danny Sullivan put up the money for a camera crew, plane ticket, housing, etc. to go report in the middle of a remote war zone? Do we simply hope that there are enough competent, niche bloggers out there who are comfortable bootstrapping their own independent businesses? And then, how does Google find which ones to trust when the sources begin to out-number the stories? The press, not just journalists and journalism, is vital. 

3. &lt;b&gt;Collective Action Problem&lt;/b&gt;. Kos&#039;s argument about the use of a robots tag to block Google is just silly. The sources of major national and international news are quite small in comparison to the total number of content producers altogether. However, these sources tend to release a lot of similar information that cannot be distinguished by the title of the content alone. Subsequently, these sources would need nearly perfect cooperation from all sources to protect their headlines. If only a handful of them chose to continue to allow their content to be available for headline aggregators, the others would lose all available traffic and the headline-only readers would remain satiated. Of course, the rest of us would have to go from site to site to find trusted providers or, better yet, visit the single site that pays for a feed from the group of sources, much in the same way that many buy news from the Associated Press. 

Ultimately, I don&#039;t have a realistic solution, but I do think that there is a good question we should all be asking...

&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Do you think the chance of sending a newspaper a visitor of yours is a fair price to pay for the headlines their Journalists write?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I disagree with the author&#8217;s solutions, I sympathize greatly with journalism&#8217;s plight. A couple of points&#8230;</p>
<p>1. <b>The headline is the product.</b> Unlike the title of a book or a webpage, the title of a news story is valuable in and of itself. While I don&#8217;t pretend to know the numbers, I believe I am safe in the assumption that a substantial proportion of news customers online are merely interested in reading the headlines. Occasionally those headlines will attract a click, but more often than not an individual visitor feels content to read &#8220;GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company&#8221; without delving into the details. Traditional media prior to the internet enjoyed the eyeballs of both those who wanted the quick headline and the complete story. A meaningful part of their product line has been pried away by Fair Use as I now can find those same headlines on virtually every web portal in existence. </p>
<p>2. <b>Blogger&#8217;s Aren&#8217;t the Press</b>. Notice that I didn&#8217;t use the word &#8220;journalist&#8221;.  Yes, Danny Sullivan is a Journalist, but his argument cannibalizes itself when he talks about the benefits the &#8220;press&#8221; gets, such as a guaranteed seat at a Presidential Press Conference, or a returned phone call from a government agency. An organized news creation industry of wide repute and mass appeal is an essential qualification of an accountable government and economy. No one outside of online marketing knows Danny Sullivan so, as an independent Journalist, he will be far less effective at garnering the attention of those in power. Now, I am not saying that it can&#8217;t be done, or hasn&#8217;t, or that bloggers don&#8217;t serve a vital role in the journalistic process (someone has to police the press too!), but imagining journalism without the behemoth news agencies is hard to do.  Will Danny Sullivan put up the money for a camera crew, plane ticket, housing, etc. to go report in the middle of a remote war zone? Do we simply hope that there are enough competent, niche bloggers out there who are comfortable bootstrapping their own independent businesses? And then, how does Google find which ones to trust when the sources begin to out-number the stories? The press, not just journalists and journalism, is vital. </p>
<p>3. <b>Collective Action Problem</b>. Kos&#8217;s argument about the use of a robots tag to block Google is just silly. The sources of major national and international news are quite small in comparison to the total number of content producers altogether. However, these sources tend to release a lot of similar information that cannot be distinguished by the title of the content alone. Subsequently, these sources would need nearly perfect cooperation from all sources to protect their headlines. If only a handful of them chose to continue to allow their content to be available for headline aggregators, the others would lose all available traffic and the headline-only readers would remain satiated. Of course, the rest of us would have to go from site to site to find trusted providers or, better yet, visit the single site that pays for a feed from the group of sources, much in the same way that many buy news from the Associated Press. </p>
<p>Ultimately, I don&#8217;t have a realistic solution, but I do think that there is a good question we should all be asking&#8230;</p>
<p><b><i>Do you think the chance of sending a newspaper a visitor of yours is a fair price to pay for the headlines their Journalists write?</i></b></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-334035</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-334035</guid>
		<description>One little point from near the bottom of the article is worth a discussion, I feel:
Advertising can only ever go so far - there are totally free newspapers out there, but it is generally accepted that their quality is fairly low. That is why people are prepared to shell out their small change to read a good paper, with fewer adverts.  Books generally don&#039;t have any adverts at all, but the model is still much the same - a trade-off between price and quality.  On the web, (and I&#039;m not just talking about news sites) there just isn&#039;t a successful mechanism for this - if you can&#039;t support yourself from adverts, then you need a damn good niche and a good site, AND good marketing to be able to run any kind of subscription service. 
_IF_ that problem ever gets sorted out, then perhaps this antagonism will decline a little.
I have the same problem myself to a degree - if I had the money to employ someone else, my site would grow a lot faster, but unlike these guys, I don&#039;t blame Google for earning money off showing my site in the search results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One little point from near the bottom of the article is worth a discussion, I feel:<br />
Advertising can only ever go so far &#8211; there are totally free newspapers out there, but it is generally accepted that their quality is fairly low. That is why people are prepared to shell out their small change to read a good paper, with fewer adverts.  Books generally don&#8217;t have any adverts at all, but the model is still much the same &#8211; a trade-off between price and quality.  On the web, (and I&#8217;m not just talking about news sites) there just isn&#8217;t a successful mechanism for this &#8211; if you can&#8217;t support yourself from adverts, then you need a damn good niche and a good site, AND good marketing to be able to run any kind of subscription service.<br />
_IF_ that problem ever gets sorted out, then perhaps this antagonism will decline a little.<br />
I have the same problem myself to a degree &#8211; if I had the money to employ someone else, my site would grow a lot faster, but unlike these guys, I don&#8217;t blame Google for earning money off showing my site in the search results.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Bold</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333803</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Bold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 09:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333803</guid>
		<description>Good journalism does exist as has been proven with The Telegraph in the UK in recent weeks. Without them, many British MPs would still be claiming inappropriate expenses paid for by the UK tax payer. The answer is not to stifle competition but to embrace it and just ensure you keep raising your standards to remain a viable business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good journalism does exist as has been proven with The Telegraph in the UK in recent weeks. Without them, many British MPs would still be claiming inappropriate expenses paid for by the UK tax payer. The answer is not to stifle competition but to embrace it and just ensure you keep raising your standards to remain a viable business.</p>
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		<title>By: Copyright</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333798</link>
		<dc:creator>Copyright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 08:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333798</guid>
		<description>Does anyone see the semblance here with copyright infringement?

Media changes, affects their industry and laws need to be passed all of a sudden to keep a business model highly profitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone see the semblance here with copyright infringement?</p>
<p>Media changes, affects their industry and laws need to be passed all of a sudden to keep a business model highly profitable.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave (Original)</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333783</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave (Original)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 06:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333783</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Good journalism is an oxymoron. It never has existed. It never will exist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;While &quot;Good journalism&quot; is the exception to the rule, it far from being oxymoron. You just need to able to sort the wheat from chaff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Good journalism is an oxymoron. It never has existed. It never will exist.</p></blockquote>
<p>While &#8220;Good journalism&#8221; is the exception to the rule, it far from being oxymoron. You just need to able to sort the wheat from chaff.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333730</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333730</guid>
		<description>I spent a dozen years working in local news media in both print and television, and to a large degree, I think the difficulties that journalism outlets are facing now could have largely been avoided.  My experiences working on the new media side of things in traditional media companies taught me that the traditionalists viewed the migration toward online with an us-versus-them mentality. And when solutions were provided to them that would help stop the erosion of revenues, viewer &amp; readership they balked.

It&#039;s a wonder I survived the frustrations I experienced trying to explain the coming tide to these people.  Because I worked on the online side of things I was definitely treated as an outsider, an obstacle, and part of a problem they hoped would just go away. Now, for a lot of companies it&#039;s too late to embrace online journalism. Those companies are folding because they were not smart enough to see that the demand for news is not dependent upon the format in which it is delivered.

I do not believe that Journalism is in trouble. Traditional media outlets, specifically newspapers, may be in deep trouble, but the demand for quality content is still there.

And I personally think that if the content is quality, and original, and not available anywhere else, that people would pay to access it online. And we all know that where they eyeballs are, the advertising dollars will follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent a dozen years working in local news media in both print and television, and to a large degree, I think the difficulties that journalism outlets are facing now could have largely been avoided.  My experiences working on the new media side of things in traditional media companies taught me that the traditionalists viewed the migration toward online with an us-versus-them mentality. And when solutions were provided to them that would help stop the erosion of revenues, viewer &amp; readership they balked.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a wonder I survived the frustrations I experienced trying to explain the coming tide to these people.  Because I worked on the online side of things I was definitely treated as an outsider, an obstacle, and part of a problem they hoped would just go away. Now, for a lot of companies it&#8217;s too late to embrace online journalism. Those companies are folding because they were not smart enough to see that the demand for news is not dependent upon the format in which it is delivered.</p>
<p>I do not believe that Journalism is in trouble. Traditional media outlets, specifically newspapers, may be in deep trouble, but the demand for quality content is still there.</p>
<p>And I personally think that if the content is quality, and original, and not available anywhere else, that people would pay to access it online. And we all know that where they eyeballs are, the advertising dollars will follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Tunkelang</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333723</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Tunkelang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 19:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333723</guid>
		<description>Oops, messed up the URL of Jeff Jarvis&#039;s blog post. It&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, messed up the URL of Jeff Jarvis&#8217;s blog post. It&#8217;s <a href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Tunkelang</title>
		<link>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/recent-piece-by-bruce-sanford-and-brown/#comment-333722</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Tunkelang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 19:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dullest.com/blog/?p=2518#comment-333722</guid>
		<description>Ashley, I agree wholeheartedly with you, and tried to make the same point over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/Jeff Jarvis&#039;s blog&lt;/a&gt;. Incidentally, he agrees about relaxing ownership restrictions on media companies (but not about the antitrust exemption).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashley, I agree wholeheartedly with you, and tried to make the same point over at <a href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/Jeff" rel="nofollow">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/16/first-stop-the-lawyers/Jeff</a> Jarvis&#8217;s blog. Incidentally, he agrees about relaxing ownership restrictions on media companies (but not about the antitrust exemption).</p>
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